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Tamla T 54034 (A), September/October 1960
(3 pressings)
b/w Who’s Lovin’ You
(Written by Berry Gordy and Smokey Robinson)
London American HLU 9276 (A), February 1961
b/w Who’s Lovin’ You
(Released in the UK under license through London Records)
The Miracles’ first hit record, and Motown’s first million selling single – but only after two little-heard original versions were pulled after a couple of weeks of release, and replaced with a brand new third re-recording instead.
The first pressing is the shortest and shakiest of the three; it sounds sloppy and half-finished, with slightly mistimed drums and guitars (including a scary bit in the middle, with a very loud electric guitar riff at 1:16 and a shaky bit immediately thereafter where the Miracles seem to come in two bars early, coming worryingly close to having the whole thing collapse around them) and somewhat ropey backing vocals. Rare as hen’s teeth, this first version was very quickly withdrawn in favour of a better second take.
That second pressing, erroneously listed in The Complete Motown Singles: Volume 1 as the original version (a mistake later corrected in the magnificent Depend On Me: The Early Albums box set) is still slower and rougher than the well-known version which went on to become such a hit; nonetheless, it was still the Miracles’ most uptempo single so far, a little quicker and more urgent than The Feeling Is So Fine.
The second version is dominated by a prominent tambourine beaten to within an inch of its life, as well as a growling sax buried in the mix which pops up for a jagged-edged solo at 1:35 before receding back into the shadows. It’s a more blues-influenced arrangement which has Smokey well out of his comfort zone, giving a sore-throated delivery and almost squealing the top notes.
The song itself is okay, but the sentiment – the narrator’s mother advising him not to commit himself to a relationship in case there’s a better girl out there for him – is hard to admire, and it sounds slightly incongruous coming from Smokey knowing he would go on to be a master craftsman of romantic pop records.
On original release in September 1960, the song stumbled to a few local-market sales, but it wasn’t headed anywhere special before co-writer and producer Berry Gordy had a brainwave while lying in bed one night a couple of weeks later. (Lest it be forgotten, Gordy was a great songwriter with an almost supernatural knack for picking hits.)
That night, while trying to sleep, Gordy was going over some ideas for songs in his head, when inspiration suddenly struck as to what should have been done with Shop Around. Excited, and afraid to wait until morning in case he lost the idea again, he got Smokey on the phone and demanded he get out of bed and round up the Miracles; by three o’clock that morning, Gordy and the group were in the studio, working on a new, faster, tighter version of Shop Around which would go on to sell over a million copies.
This third version, which later featured on the first Miracles album Hi, We’re The Miracles in June 1961, is undeniably the best of the three versions. Unlike previous Motown re-recordings which had produced ambiguous results, the new Shop Around is twice the record its predecessors were.
Taken at a faster lick, with the Funk Brothers on better form – more intricate basswork, some great brushed drums instead of that violent tambourine – and featuring a smoother, more accomplished, more radio-friendly sax solo in place of the second version’s squealing blues interlude, it could hardly fail. Smokey gives the song a more confident, more controlled pop lead vocal delivery, which suits the tune markedly better than the raw-throated attack he employed on the original take. Motown’s first number one hit (on the R&B chart, also hitting number 2 on the pop chart), it’s a hit single all the way.
It’s also (whisper it) still not as good as some of their previous singles – Bad Girl and especially Way Over There are better than this one, all told – but it’s great fun nonetheless, quite aside from it being Historically Significant both for the Miracles and in the grand scheme of the Motown story.
MOTOWN JUNKIES VERDICT
(I’ve had MY say, now it’s your turn. Agree? Disagree? Leave a comment, or click the thumbs at the bottom there. Dissent is encouraged!)
You’re reading Motown Junkies, an attempt to review every Motown A- and B-side ever released. Click on the “previous” and “next” buttons below to go back and forth through the catalogue, or visit the Master Index for a full list of reviews so far.
(Or maybe you’re only interested in Smokey Robinson & the Miracles? Click for more.)
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| Singin’ Sammy Ward “Who’s The Fool” |
The Miracles “Who’s Lovin’ You” |
Motown Junkies 
I must leap to the defence of this wonderful song – the glorious opening recitative and the headlong plunge into the song proper, the intoxicating string of rhymes at the end (and the sureness of touch of the delicious rhymes all the way through)… And as for the content, Mary Wells proved very eloquently that the shoe could perfectly well be on the other foot, in her version. As one who got married rather late in life, I was serenaded with this at the reception….
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Bizarrely enough, I was just listening to Mary Wells’ version as I read your comment – what are the odds?
Anyway, I never found her version too convincing (especially the transposition of “young man” to “young girl”, rather than “young woman”); the real female counterpoint is Debbie Dean’s “answer song” riposte, Don’t Let Him Shop Around, which contains a great closing verse that redresses the balance and (if we take it as a canon extension of the original song, rather than a silly throwaway) actually explains everything far more satisfactorily!
As for Smokey’s original… I didn’t savage it, because it’s great fun, in its third iteration at least; I like the smirk in his voice, and the idea that he’s not actually going to act on his mother’s advice, instead just telling us a funny story about something he was once told. It’s just never struck as much of a chord as most of the Miracles’ other “monument” singles. I’m just not as impressed by intricate wordplay as most critics seem to be (probably because I spent too much time in the past listening to Noel Coward records – in particular, he has a 1928 recording of a song called Mary Make Believe which is just a magnificent Twenties example of a string of rhymes with an exemplary grasp of rhythm – not sure if Youtube has a clip, but the second verse –
She’s just a girl who’s always blowing mental bubbles ’til she’s quite out of breath (quite out of breath)
She seems to have the knack of magnifying troubles ’til they crush her to death (crush her to death)
She’s just a duffer of the ineffective kind
She’s bound to suffer for her introspective mind
Her indecisions
Quite prevent her visions coming true
Imagination is a form of flagellation if a sensitive child / Lets it run wild
It dims the firmament
’til all the work is permanently blue…
– is something that always comes to mind whenever Smokey gets up to his best high-speed internal rhyming.) I like Smokey’s rhymes, very much, but that’s not why I love his writing; I admire him most as a writer for his storylines, his imagery, his economy of phrase; the rhymes for me are a delightful bonus, a confirmation he knew his stuff rather than the stuff in itself. That’s just me, though, and I’m aware I’m in a minority. I’m also rambling a little, I hope I’m coming across clearly!
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I just heard Debbie Dean’s “Don’t Let Him Shop Around” and it was a cool answer song. Thanx!
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Ramble on! – it’s always a delight. And I will check out the Noel Coward song. My mind is also drawn to G & S – for example, in The Mikado, where Pooh-Bah manages to rhyme ‘Lord High Executioner’ with ‘You very imperfect ablutioner’ and ‘I’m sorry to be/Of your pleasure a Diminutioner…’ But as for Smokey, yes, his lyricism is first and foremost; my favourite Smokey song (my favourite Motown song, perhaps?) is Ooo Baby Baby, where the rhymes – though lovely – take a back seat to sheer poignant heart-breaking beauty. By the way, my heartiest congratulations on your becoming a father!
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Another very fine review.
I’ll only add that I never cared for the light airy sound of the hit, namely the third version. Unquestionably it’s the best performance of the three both by Smokey and the band. However, I wax nostalgic about the more natural sound of the second version. My fantasy version would be the third, but with the sound of the second.
And I understand why they did it. I recently heard both versions back to back on a crappy boom box and the third version didn’t sound thin and distant as it does on my nice system, it just sounded natural; while the second version didn’t sound natural, it sounded murkey. clearly they were addressing the issue of how the record would sound coming out of a cheap radio. I only wonder if the third version exists in its original state prior to mastering for single release. hm………..
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That’s fascinating – I’ve never thought of the hit version as “thin and distant”, clearly my hi-fi isn’t expensive enough! 🙂
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I’m confused on these versions – can you provide more clues? I’ve found one called “Detroit Version”at 3:04, one called “second version” at 2:48 and one called “hit version” at 2:50. I haven’t been able to find this part that you mention: “very loud electric guitar riff at 1:16 and a shaky bit immediately thereafter where the Miracles seem to come in two bars early”. In any case, I agree that the vocal performance is best on the hit version but I like all three backing tracks for various reasons. As for the song, this is the most hook-laden so far to my ear.
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I’m not sure about what you’re saying. I never made the comments that it looks like you’re attributing to me but then maybe you’re asking me for clarification? If so, here goes. I own all 3 different pressings. I’ve played them “against” one another using 2 different, identical, mid ’60s GE record players. I’ve also “timed” each record. I DO NOT KNOW HOW A SOUND ENGINEER WOULD TIME A RECORD IN 1960. Does the “time” begin when he hits the RECORD button on his console or when the 1st instrument/vocal begins? I DON’T KNOW. So what I did was time EACH release (A1, A2 and L1) from when the 1st sound started to when the last sound ended (whether instrumental or vocal) and what I came up with was this – L1 2:44, A2 2:46 and A1 2:52. Now how Motown got 2:48 out of those I don’t know for sure. However, if you average out the difference between 2:44 and 2:52 you get 2:48 ( or 2:47.333333> based on adding the 3 times together and dividing by 3). I’ve also written down the lyrics and “musical” backgrounds as best as I can describe them and they are as follows: A1 – A piano begins just before the spoken vocal ” When I became of a g e (the word age is drawn out). The verses continue to “pretty soon you’ll take a bride”. There is a SHORT one second pause leading to – “And then she said”. At this point a “mild” piano/guitar combo comes in and the verses continue- Just because…
The A2 begins with a HORN LEAD in before the spoken word verse “When I became of age.. (the word age IS NOT DRAWN OUT AS IN THE A1).
The L1 begins with a combined guitar/piano lead in, then the spoken verses “When I became of age…”
In the A2 there is a long pause after the verse ending with “take a bride” . In both the A1 & L1 there is only the short 1 second pause!
The A1 contains the verses (towards the end of the song) “Before you take a girl and say I do now, make sure she’s in love with you now”. The L1 contains an ALMOST identical verse but adds the phrase “AH” before the word “make”. This entire verse IS NOT IN THE A2 VERSION. In the A1 & L1 versions this verse is followed by “MY MOMMA TOLD ME, YOU BETTER SHOP AROUND”. Then each has about a 14/15 second “music only” break. The A1 break has a sax with piano accompaniment while the A2 & L1 have only a sax and NO piano.
Again, towards the very end of the song, there’s this verse in all 3 versions – “Before you take a girl and say I do now”. In the A2 & L1 versions the following verses are – “make sure she’s in love with you now, make sure that her love is true now, ah hate to see you feelin sad and blue now”. In the A1 version the first two of the 3 verses are REVERSED – (A1) – make sure that her love is true now, make sure she’s in love with you now”. In the A1 that is followed by the distinct word “I” instead of the muddled “AH” hate to see you feelin sad and blue now”.
There are other differences such as the substitution of “Ah huh, you better shop around” in the A2 where its “Oh hey hey a” in the L1 and it’s “Oh oh hey hey a” in the A1 but I think you’re beginning to get the picture – different piano breaks vs guitar breaks plus the L1 HAS A FASTER TEMPO. Which is why, being FASTER IN TEMPO, IT ENDS SOONER. Hope this helps. By the way, I’VE NEVER SEEN A COPY WITH A PRINTED “TIME” OTHER THAN 2:48. Don’t know where someone got 3:04 at, unless it’s from timing a 1967 reissue. I’ll have to check that out. But the ’67’s are ALL A2’s with either “globe” or “bar” labels. Lined “bright yellow” striped labels where the 2 looks like a Z are bootlegs. They will also have breaks in the lines of the labels that come with making multiple copies on a zerox (a modern copy) machine that would never occur on a circa 1960 PRINTING PRESS!
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Thanks – that helps a lot. (the quote was from the original description in the main article).
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Speaking of being a minority, I guess I’m a colossal one, never actually too thrilled with Shop Around. I know….a million seller and all that. After coming off Barrett Strong, Mary Wells, and Smokey’s Way Over There, this was way too tame for an old urban RnB’er. I’m being pretty objective because when the next one comes out, Ain’t It Baby, I’m firmly back in the fold.
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Okay, now we’re talking. So far this is the best released Motown single of 1960 and is the best song, besides “Money” that had been released at this point IMO. The tempo is just right, the lyrics are fun and true (lol) and all of the Miracles including Smokey are believable and offer the right kind of energy that this song needed. Using Nixon’s rating system I would give this song a 10.
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I also like the alternate version (tested only in Detroit), which has the twangy guitar break in the middle. Both versions are quite nice. The song was good quality for that time. We must remember that by mid 1962, Motown recordings were already consistently ahead of their time in sound. “Shop Around” was before Motown had developed its own sound. So, at the time of this release (fall 1960), Motown & Tamla were putting out a lot of “normal” R&B/Pop music, and only a few highest quality releases, here and there. This was one of the good ones (and should not be judged by 1964-66 standards.
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Is there any website that I can listen to the alternate version? I would love to hear it.
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Try You Tube or Rdio
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I couldn’t find that particular mix on You Tube. I did find this alternate version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLY74jXJ_b0
but it is NOT the version with the twangy guitar break, that came out on striped Tamla 45 only in Detroit in late 1960, BEFORE the national version was released.
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The You Tube poster says there were 2 versions recorded. There were at least 4 versions RELEASED: 1) the nationally-distributed hit version, 2) the album alternate mix version, 3) the so-called “Original version” -on my You Tube link-only released in Detroit on striped Tamla in 1960, but re-released on Globed Tamla in 1964, and 4) The alternate mix with Marvin Tarplin’s extended guitar break-only released in Detroit on striped Tamla 45 in 1960.
Unfortunately, I cant find the latter on You Tube. But, you can see it listed in the Tamla Records discography with the same record catalogue number, but a different recording/pressing code number.
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Thanx Robb!
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okie dokie = )
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There are 3 ORIGINAL versions of “SHOP AROUND” that have been mastered and released. A1 and L1. The A2 version was mastered but pressed only due to an error by the Motown staff. After the limited pressing and Detroit only release of the A1 version, within 2 weeks it became apparent that the record was a bust. Not even “black oriented” Detroit radio stations would play it. Gordy DID summon the Miracles as well as the “house” band to the studio in the middle of the night to re-record the song. After several run-throughs, TWO versions were actually put on tape. First was the A2 matrixed version. Then, after more “tweeking” the “HIT” version was recorded. At the end of the session, a very tired engineer supposedly asked an even more tired Gordy how to label (matrix) the song. Gordy responded “which one?” The engineer responded “the last one, third version”. Gordy then said “just like that, L1” So the “hit” version was matrixed as L1(3. Some pressings carry L1(1 but they are the same song. Both songs were rush mastered and after an audible screening the L1 version was selected to replace the A1 currently in stores. The A2 master was shelved at the Motown “vault” (actually a large closet at the facility). More L1 masters were ordered and rush pressings were consigned to Bell labs as well as pressing plants in Chicago. The Chicago pressed records arrived 1st and delivered by car to Detroit area record stores that still stocked the A1 version. Motown employees were instructed to retrieve the A1’s when delivering the new version. These A1’s were returned to the Motown offices where they, along with the master, were destroyed. The original Chicago pressed L1’s DO NOT CONTAIN L1 IN THE MATRIX, instead, they were pressed using ONLY the ZSTC number. The Bell Lab pressings DO contain the L1 matrix. As popularity grew, more pressing plants were used and the matrix of these plants would include L1(1 and L1(3 in the matrix. (With the (1 and (3 in very small writing, similar to the mathematical sign of squared or cubed.) The A2 version would come into play only after the song rocketed up the charts. With its rise up the charts more masters were needed. As they came into Motown offices they were sent to pressing plants across the country. Someone at Motown inadvertently shipped the A2 master to a Capital Records pressing plant in California (thinking it was an L1 master). At the same time, again due to the haste required to manufacture as many records as fast as possible, a PRINTING plant in Calif. hired to make the labels for the record, sent out labels mis-spelling Barry Gordys’ name in the writers credits as “GORDT”. These labels were used on many pressing machines, on ONE of which had been loaded the “infamous” A2 master. This mistake was caught only AFTER the records had been partially distributed to the stores. The A2’s still at the pressing plant were subsequently destroyed. HOWEVER, those that had been distributed to stores were allowed to be sold! To my knowledge, ALL ORIGINAL A2 RELEASES WILL HAVE THE LABEL WITH “GORDY” MIS-SPELLED AS “GORDT” AS WELL AS THE TRIANGULAR “DELTA” SYMBOL DENOTING A WEST COAST (west of the Mississippi River) PRESSING.
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I have one with “Gordt” on it, as well as one of that version, without, plus one of the other 45 version, with the great twangy guitar solo break.
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Hey Robb, good to hear someones “listening”! But I’m a little confused by your response. Sounds like you’re saying you have 3 copies, one of which has the “Gordt” mis-spelling and a Different one that you feel is the “alternate” version? Could you clarify a little bit for me? What are the dead wax etchings on each of your copies and which one is it you feel is the “alternate”? You do realize that I’m not saying all the labels with the “Gordt” mis-spelling are alternates don’t you? Several thousand were sold with the “Gordt” credited label, the VAST majority of which are the L1 hit versions. But the “Gordt” labels will ALL have the west coast delta mark, as will ALL A2’s because they were pressed at the same plant. What I’d be VERY surprised to hear is that you, or anyone, have an A2 WITHOUT the “Gordt” label or the delta mark! Please describe exactly what you have!!! Thanks, Bob M
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Maybe I’m confused, but it seems that you are saying that ALL the 2nd version (A2) were pressed at Monarch in L.A. Why would Motown not also press the new version also in the Midwest (Columbia-ztsc) and on the east coast, especially as they needed to get out the replacements to replace the “inferior” first issue as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, I’m not with my records now, so I can’t check. But, as I remember, I have the first issue (Detroit only?) with the extended twangy guitar solo break, and I believe that was pressed at Columbia with a ZTSC number, and it is spelled: “Gordy”. And my A2 issue is spelt: “Gordt”. However, I have seen copies of the “hit version” that are spelled correctly.
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Sorry to take soooo long to reply but I just noticed your comment. I don;t mean to be confusing but the song and its’ releases have a confusing history. The A1 was released first (in limited quantity to a limited few record stores inside the Detroit city limits). First records out of the press got A2 labels, but later, during the same press run the labels were changed to A1 (there were left over A1 labels after the press run ended). After only 2 or 3 weeks the A1 was decided to be a failure and the A2 version was scheduled (on a Friday) to take its’ place (to be sent out on Monday). Over THAT weekend B. Gordy came up with the L1 version. Called the band in in the early morning hours after midnight and spent the last few hours before dawn Monday mixing the song into 3 versions. These versions are known collectively as L1 but they have 3 possible matrix notations. ALL have a capital L followed by an equally large 1. But following the 1 will be, to the upper right of the 1 the following mark ( . It is VERY small and resembles the mathematical sign for a “square” or “cube” root. Following the ( will be either a 1, 2 or 3. Again, it’s VERY small. This sign denotes which of the 3 “mixed” versions Gordy did on that early Monday morning. When the staff arrived Monday morning Gordy cancelled the A2 shipment and substituted the new L1 (mix 2). Labels with A2 had been ordered on Friday and the 54034 A2 label was never changed. Gordy also ordered that the number of presses (records) be dramatically increased AND that Columbia (Chicago) press some of the first copies. Columbia/Chicago had its’ own metal mastering & label printing facilities so all they needed was a master tape. But they were a bit confused when they got a rush order and the master tape arrived in a box labeled A1, A2 L1(2 so someone decided to simply press it/label it with the Columbia/Tamla contract number. That number was ZTSC 67018. Later pressings from Columbia corrected the label & matrix to 54034 A2/ L1(2. American Record Producers (ARP) got their 1st press matrix number correct but used the left over A1 labels on the first few hundred pressings, including a large number of white label DJ/Promos. Now back to that fateful Monday morning. The A2 master that was scheduled to be shipped was put on a shelf above the label “Shop Around”. As weeks went on and the record rocketed up the charts numerous more master tapes were made to keep up with demand at pressing plants across the country. By late Nov ’60 Gordy knew he had a genuine hit that could reach #1 but to do that he had to SERIOUSLY invade the West coast. He contracted with Monarch Records in Southern Calif. to press at least 50,000 copies on a rush basis. With possibly more pressings to come. In early Dec ’60 Gordy ordered all available Master tapes airmailed to Monarch. Someone at Motown took has order literally and sent EVERY tape, including the A2 tape sitting at the bottom of the stack above a label that read “Shop Around”. (The box the A2 was in had a “master number” of 36968 because it was made in Sept. while the L1 tapes had a “master number” of 37073 because they were made much later.) Monarch received the tapes & metal mastered them as fast as possible. Each matrixed according to the Master number on its’ container. In their haste to make labels quickly they did make a small, insignificant mistake. The first 25,000+ labels contained a typographical error. The 1st writers credit was miss spelled as Gordt instead of Gordy. Future pressings corrected the error. But for the 1st pressing ALL records pressed had the label error. FROM ONE PRESS, WHICH HELD THE ONLY A2 METAL MASTER, CAME AS MANY AS 7,500 to 10,000 copies. Many reached stores before the error was discovered and those that did were NEVER recalled. That’s how the A2, mastered in Sept happened to be pressed in Dec but never officially released by Tamla (Motown) until its’ rerelease in late ’67.
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How do you tell if the misspelled single is the alternate version that should not have been released?
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Hi All! I noticed folks kicking around the Shop Around section & had to share a funny story. Years ago, the unfortunate Captain & Tenielle remake came on the radio. A friend who was with me commented, “Boy it sounds like this song should have been sung by a man!” He was completely unaware of the original. Of course Smokey Robinson himself did a sort of update of the songs on one of his 80s albums called “Time to Stop Shopping Around” It was actually kind of a cute song with references to old Motown songs & the Temptations backing him up.
A joyful & blessed new year to all my Motown friends!!!!!
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Here are The MIRACLES , singing the song that was their (and Motown’s) first million-selling hit record, “Shop Around” !!
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You mean lipsynching. So which version is this one? It’s not the one that became the big smash hit. You can hear the difference when Smokey, in the line “Make sure that her love is is true now” does not go off- kilter on the word “love.” Also the “my son” lines distinguish themselves from the lines in the version that made the charts.
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To Abbott Cooper, you are absolutely correct that the song in the video is being lipsynched. However you are incorrect when you state it is NOT the hit “version”. The “hit” version” is ACTUALLY A COMBINATION OF THREE SEPARATE “MIXES” OF THE L1 “HIT”. That’s right, there are THREE released versions (on 45) of the “HIT”. EACH HAS A VERY SUBTLE DIFFERENCE FROM THE OTHER. To find the different mix notation of the “hit” uptempo version on a U.S. made 45 you must look at the dead wax/trail off matrix VERY carefully. You may need a magnifying glass. In the matrix, besides ANYTHING else etched/written there will be a capital letter L followed by a large 1 – as in L1. Let me stop here for a few seconds and take you back to middle school. Do you remember the mathematical sign for the number 2 squared? Or for 3 cubed? The square or cubed root signs are (2 and (3. Well, on the L1 hit mixes of Shop Around, in the matrix, just to the upper right of the 1 in L1 WILL be a SMALL mathematical type sign ( followed by either a 1, 2 or 3. THIS ALONE DENOTES WHICH “MIX” IS IN THE GROOVES. I’m originally from Detroit where the L1(2 is most common. Each of the 3 mixes were released to different areas of the U.S. In some other areas the A1(3 is most common. Being from Mich. I have found the hardest mix to find is the L1(1. BUT that mix could be the “most common” in another area of the U.S.
I congratulate you on your “ear for music” as MOST people, today as well as over 50 years ago, could not discern the differences between the 3 versions! But the song in the video IS an “uptempo” L1 hit version.
There are (VERY RARE) exceptions to the L1 (uptempo/hit) label and matrix rule. They are, in their own right, 1st presses of the L1(2 mix. The first, AND RAREST, is the L1 (2 mix with a 54034 A1 label. Fewer than 300 were pressed and most of those white label Advance Copy DJ’s. Stock copies of L1 (2 matrixed but 54034 A1 labeled copies are quite rare. Another 1st pressing of the L1 (2 was pressed in limited quantity by Columbia Records/Chicago. The 1st pressings commissioned by Tamla, contracted with and pressed by Columbia/Chicago (corporate offices in Chicago but pressed in Terre Haute, IN) contain ONLY the following on BOTH the label AND in the matrix — ZTSC 67018. The song in the grooves is the L1 (2 uptempo/HIT mix but whoever mastered it at Columbia made the metal master (and labels) using only the Columbia “in-house” pressing code & contract number. The pressing code tells the press operator what he’s going to set his machine to press. Z= 45 rpm. T= 7 inch diameter. S= styrene (a form of vinyl) the substrate to be pressed on. And C= contracted through the Columbia offices in Chicago. There were no more than 7,000 of these records pressed.
In the “scheme” of things, the A1 version with an A1 matrix/A2 label was the 1st version pressed. During the press run the label was changed to A1. So although the A1 matrix/A2 label 45’s were the 1st out of the machine, the A1 matrix/A1 label copies are rarer. A1 labels were left over after the A1 pressing was halted. A2 version was scheduled for release. MORE A2 labels were printed, BUT the L1 (mix) versions replaced the A2 before the A2 could be shipped for metal mastering. The very 1st L1 “hit” versions pressed were the L1(2 mix and received the left over A1 labels first, then the newly printed A2 labels. Except for Columbia pressings which got ZTSC 67018 labels & matrix . After the L1 hit was 1st pressed at many plants, the label designation of A2 was NEVER changed. Although the MATRIX changed from (2 to (3 and (1 based on the area of the country where it was released.
I have all the versions. A1, A2 and L1. Besides the uptempo beat of the L1 there are subtle differences in the verses. At about the 2:10 mark there is the line “Before you take a girl and say I do now… This line is in all versions. But in the L1 & A2 versions the next lines are “Make sure she’s in love with’a you now, make sure that her love is true now”. However, in the A1 original these 2 verses are reversed- “make sure that her love is true now, make sure she’s in love with’a you now, Another difference is at about the midway point of the songs is the line “Ah pretty girls come a dime a dozen”. The next line, in both the A1 and L1 is “Ah try to find one WHO’S gonna give you true lovin'” however in the A2 version the line is “Ah try to find one THAT’S gonna give you true lovin'”. THERE ARE NUMEROUS OTHER SUBTLE & NOT SO SUBTLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE VERSIONS. THE MOST OBVIOUS IS TEMPO. If you follow the tempo and wording of the song in the video you will find it is an uptempo “mix” of the L1 hit version(s).
Hope this isn’t too confusing and gives you some insight as to what you watched and what you remember (or have). 🙂
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First off, thanks for the lesson. I finally have a clear explanation of what all the terms, abbreviations and symbols indicate. Now for my copy, which I purchased in late autumn of 1960, during my sophomore year in high school, from a record store in New York City. It is an L1 with a exponential (1, and this was the version that ALL pop and R&B stations were playing in the entire NYC metropolitan area, an area with a population of approximately 12 million, a greater population than that of all but 2 states in the USA in 1960. (Trust me, I checked.) What this means is that anyone living around here, where I still reside, who might have purchased a different version, would have returned it to the shop immediately and told the proprietor, “This ain’t it.”
So what you appear to be saying is that what sounded like the hit record in one area was not necessarily the hit in another part of the country, which begs the question: what version were nationally televised and broadcast programs like American Bandstand playing, and didn’t that cause some degree of confusion when viewers or listeners heard a version they were unfamiliar with and concluded, “This ain’t it?”
Interestingly, the version that TCMS chose to designate as the “national version” is one and the same as the one I bought way back then [ L1, (1] . I am assuming that, of all the the versions produced, it was the most prevalent.
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I was in Chicago and Winnipeg in 1960, and the version The Miracles were lip-sinking to on the video you posted above was NOT our hit version. Is the version on your video posted above the same as that in TCMS. In 1960, I heard both the version with the twangy guitar solo in the break, and one without. The one without was the common hit version I heard in Winnipeg, Chicago and L.A. There was also a 3rd different version on one of the Miracles’ LPs.
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I can’t comment on what you heard on Chicago radio. My information is that Columbia/Chicago pressed the L1 (2 (“hit”) version of the song. HOWEVER, I can tell you for sure that the ORIGINAL 1st version, the A1, was released not only locally in Detroit but was also leased/contracted to Canada’s REO record label. Gordy wanted to get as much airplay as possible and their was no better way to do it that get the record played on Windsor,Ont station CKLW. A 50,000 watt powerhouse heard (on a clear night) in 38 U.S. states as well as most of the populated areas of Canada. In order to do that the song had to be pressed on a Canadian label. It’s possible the REO release was played outside of Ontario but I doubt it. So if you are looking for a copy of the original A1 (recalled) version check out Canadian sellers who advertise the song as the “alternate” version. The A2 (U.S. alternate version) was never to my knowledge sold in Canada so any Canadian “alternate” should be the A1.
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Sorry, Robb, but I did not notice your question to me until now for its lack of a question mark. Answer: NO. The video version is not the hit version or “national version” as labeled in TCMS, nor is it the version heard all around NYC in late 1960.
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Before I answer your questions, as best I can, please tell me what TCMS refers to. I’m not familiar with it. On to your questions and maybe a little more insight ( for both of us?).
It is entirely possible that your L1(1 version was the most popular (by sales) of the three. I would not dispute that claim and agree that the area you live in is/was the most densely populated area of the country.
I was born in a suburb of Detroit in late ’51. In “56 my father was transferred by Great Lakes Steel to a new plant located in Terre Haute, Ind. I had a sister, born in ’41 and a brother born in ’42. My father, mother & I moved back to the Detroit area in mid ’62 but my sister & brother, both now married remained behind. After graduation my sister and sister-in-law both worked at the Columbia Records pressing plant from ’59 to ’63 and recall vividly that they both packaged & shipped records that did not have Columbia related labels, including Tamla & Motown labels.
So there is no doubt in my mind that many of the L1 (2 pressings were made by Columbia in Terre Haute. Add to that the fact that from the mid ’80’s until 2001 I was a record dealer in the Detroit area. I advertised in both Goldmine and Discoveries magazines for years and sold at record shows in Detroit, Ann Arbor, Chicago and Toledo. Besides buying records thru the trade papers and at the record shows I often bought new (used) stock in Pittsburgh, PA. They had a half dozen used record stores with an inventory of at least 1,000,000 45’s EACH! GREAT TIMES.
BUT, in all those venues I found the most common version of Shop Around to be the L1 (2.
I think it was because of the area of the country I lived and shopped in.
I personally never paid much attention to the L1 versions. I knew they were pressed with 3 different matrixs’ but in Detroit the “word” was that Gordy put that (? on them to keep track of distribution, a common practice in the late ’50’s early ’60’s to keep distributors honest. Other labels did similar things (mostly on the label) such as VJ having a flat black label with Vj in silver print, then flat black with VJ in brackets, then flat black with VJ spelled out VeeJay then shiny black labels with a color band. Atlantic used a “fan” to denote 2nd pressings. Some labels used a “rope” across the middle then changed it to a thin line and then a thicker line.
However, while shopping on ebay a few years ago I ran across what appeared to me to be a bootleg copy of Shop Around (A2 version) being sold by someone in Chicago. When I questioned him he was very polite and told me another collector had asked him similar questions. And, as he wanted to be an honest seller asked me to confer with the other person & let him know what we thought. He supplied me with an email address that was located in England. I contacted the individual in England. His name is Graham. He agreed with me the copy for sale was a bootleg and we started up a conversation about Shop Around. It ends up that he is a DEDICATED collector of ALL things Motown as well as northern soul. Occasionally selling on ebay but for the most part a DEDICATED collector.
Graham informed me there are 6, yes 6, versions of Shop Around. Those versions are A1, A2, L1(1, L1(2, L1(3 and another 6th version that was released only on a Miracles album. He told me the three L1 (45) versions are different mixes and that they are almost impossible to tell apart from one another without special playback equipment. Which is why I congratulated you on your ability to tell one mix from another!
As to another of your questions, and probably the most relevant– which song (version) was the group lip-synching in the video? I would guess that they lip-synched whichever version the local TV show provided. If they were on American Bandstand that shows producer provided a local copy of the record. As Philly was “east coast” it was likely the same song you bought at your New York record store.
I can’t say for sure why there weren’t complaints that the song sung in Philly wasn’t the song sold locally in, say, Detroit. Except for the fact that the songs are EXTREMELY similar. A listener may have just thought THEY had the lyrics wrong instead on the singers. What do you think?
As far as the pressing order of the earliest pressings goes I can tell you this– the A1 & A2 were recorded within hours of each other. At the Friday writers/producers meeting that Gordy held weekly the vote was evenly split over which version to release and no one was enthused with either song, so Gordy left it to Robinson to pick which to release. That Friday Robinson picked the A2. Labels were ordered with the release number 54034 A2 & the A2 tape was to be shipped Monday. Over the weekend Gordy changed his mind & 1st thing Monday morning he ordered the A1 be shipped instead. The staff shipped the A1 and contacted the printer to change the label number to A1 but 300 A2 labels had been printed. So the printer made 300 more labels, this time with 54034 A!. HOWEVER when Gordy changed the shipment to A1 he also reduced the press run to about 400 copies. Sort of hedging his bets here. So the first 300 or so A1 pressings got the 300 originally printed A2 labels. the last 100 got the “newly” ordered A1 labels. The white label “Advance Copy DJ” labels were printed last. So a VERY few A1 matrix records got A1 DJ labels.
At that point the press run was done and a number of labels were left over. Some white labels with 54034 A! as well as some stock labels with 54034 A1 but there were a few hundred stock labels leftover with 54034 A2.
Fast forward 3 weeks & the A1 is a failure. Horribly poor sales & radio won’t play it. So (again on a Friday) Gordy decides to cut his losses & recall the A1 in favor of the A2. He orders the A2 tape boxed for mailing on Monday and the staff orders more labels. 54034 A2 labels. What happens over that weekend has been detailed in many books. Gordy awakens late Sun night into early Monday morning with a new, more uptempo, version of Shop Around in his head. Calls the band & The Miracles to the studio at 2 am and in a couple hours the L1 uptempo “hit” version is on tape. After the session he spends hours re-mixing the song into 3 mixes (versions). When the staff arrives Monday morning he cancels the A2 mailing (again) and orders rush metal mastering of the L1. He orders more labels be made. THOUSANDS of them. BUT he fails to change the 54034 A2 release number for the labels. The metal masters go to ARP in Owosso, MI as well as a plant in Nashville, TN. Columbia/Chicago is sent only a master reel to reel tape as they do their own metal mastering & label printing. The plant that originally pressed the A1 has left over A1 labels and applies them to the 1st L1’s out of the presses.
The L1(2 is the first version pressed. I know that because I have one of the VERY FEW L1 uptempo “hit” versions that received a left over stock A1 label. The matrix is L1(2. The label is 54034 A1.
I congratulate you again on your hearing! I have compared the A1, A2 and L1(2 against each other. Have the words & phrasing all written out in longhand as well as differences in the music and various times guitars, piano & sax come in but I’ve never been inclined to do the same using the three L1 versions. Probably because it took me DECADES to find my A1 and I was hellbent on noting the differences.
Hope this helps give you some insight! Glad to have met you.
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Because the columns are becoming too narrow, I will begin a new thread immediately below.
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The Miracles look a fair amount older in that video than they did in 1960. And in 1960, Claudette would have appeared with them. I’m guessing that was 1965, when “The Miracles From The Beginning” was released. And, I remember the version of “Shop Around” on that LP was one I hadn’t heard before, and I had The REO Canadian issue, and The ZTSC issue, The Chicago issue, and The L.A. issue. If I remember correctly, all 4 were different. But, I like the one with the prominent twangy guitar solo in the break, best of all. I was told that that was the version issued in The Detroit Metro Area (and maybe all of southeastern Michigan plus Toledo.
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And, of course, it was one of REO’s 2 different versions.
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This is a video of an L1 version. The A1, A2 & L1 versions All contain the lines –
Ah try to get yourself a bargain son
Don’t be sold on the very first one
Ah pretty girls come a dime a dozen
THEN, in the A1 and L1 versions of the 45 the next line is:
Ah try to find one WHO’S gonna give you true lovin’
HOWEVER, in the A2 (45) version that line is:
Ah try to find one THAT’S gonna give you true lovin’
FOLLOWING that line, in both the A1 and L1 (45) versions is the verse
Before you take a girl and say I do now
THEN, in the A1 version the next line is:
Make sure she’s in love with you now.
But in the L1 versions the line is:
AH make sure shes in love with you now.
NOTE THAT NEITHER OF THOSE TWO LINES ARE IN THE A2 version!
FOLLOWING THOSE LINES IS THE VERSE (in all versions) —–
My momma told me
you better shop around.
In the A1 and L1 versions there is an non-verbal instramental break of about 15 seconds. HOWEVER, that is NOT the case with the A2 version. In THAT version there is an additional vocal verse BEFORE the sax comes in. And that is —-
Uh Huh, you better shop around.
From this description of my 45’s and based on the video, I can say this is a version of the L1 “hit” version, as the vocals do not correspond to either the A1 or A2 versions.
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Hello, my friend Bob. I will give you a health status report in my ensuing post. As for the current issue, I am in complete agreement that the video is an L1 version, and I can assure you that it is not an L1 (1 version which I own in vinyl and is the so-called “national version” included in TCMS Volume 1. So, this brings us back to my original question and your next mission if, in the words of TV’s “Mission Impossible,” you choose to accept it and are possession of the versions at issue: Is the video an L1 (2 or an L1 (3? I breathlessly await your response.
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I along with Robb and an interesting gentleman named Abbott Cooper have been debating this song AND THIS VIDEO for the past several months. I logged in this evening to check on recent posts and decided to watch the video again. Upon viewing it a second time I notice two things I had overlooked during my first viewing. At the time of my first viewing I had been asked to try and determine which version of the song the group was singing so I devoted my attention primarily to the lyrics. But on my second viewing I believe I’ve picked up on a couple visual clues which might explain the song being sung AND WHEN.
The group singing is absolutely The Miracles. Originally known , in 1957, as The Matadors. Renamed in 1958 by Berry Gordy as The Miracles. HOWEVER, there are only 4/5’s of The Miracles (Matadors) performing the song. WHERE IS CLAUDINE RODGERS? The 5th Miracle?
Also note that Robinson appears to be somewhat, if not heavier, than more “filled out” than he was in ’59 & ’60. This might make readers do some research, but if you notice Robinson’s appearance on the picture sleeve of the Tamla EP that includes Shop Around AND the groups then current hit Ain’t It Baby (as well as the “B” side of each of those songs on 45 rpm) he appears to (also) be heavier (more pudgy, filled out, bigger) than in ’59 & ’60.
So my question is this. Could this be a video of the group doing a “promo” appearance for either the EP that includes Shop Around, or for an album that has both Shop Around AND Ain’t It Baby on it? You know, a video (of a TV show) where the group sings a “previous” hit and then the “new” hit?
If so they could well be singing the “album” or (if different) the EP cut.
Opinions?
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Hey, Bob. Only the comments about one song of the 688 could return me from my hiatus. It appears that you are saying that the version in the video does not match any of the 6 previously discussed singles that circulated around various sections of the USA and beyond, and that the album version(s) could have provided even more varieties of the same song. Intriguing suggestion that should not be too difficult to confirm. Upon re-viewing the video, I too agree that the group had put significant mileage behind them when they were recorded doing this video. As for Claudette, I know she stopped touring with the group a number of years before she ceased to record with them, ostensibly to start a family. I’m sure some if our fellow junkies could supply the year and month when she quit the stage. And to think, the whole discussion commenced when I innocently asked which version of the song is on the video. Well, maybe we know now….or maybe not.
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I think it was early 1965 that Claudette stopped making stage appearances. If not, it must have been late 1964.
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1- In appreciation of all I learned from you, I will now return the favor to an extent. TCMS is The Complete Motown Singles, the massive 14-volume compilation of every A and B side produced by Motown and its other labels between 1959 and 1972…..2- As far as what I think, it’s that, as I previously suggested, this array of versions of the same song circulating around the USA and elsewhere must have caused confusion among consumers, TV viewers, and radio listeners whenever they heard a version of which they were unfamiliar. A person becomes comfortable with the version that created the original enjoyment generated by the song. Other versions heard subsequently sound foreign. 99.999999% of such people get over it. The rest are left to argue about. They’re known as Motown Junkies.
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…argue about it.
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In this case I must agree with you my “junkie” friend. People today notice no difference in the song on the radio regardless of where they live. But then again, maybe there is no longer a difference? I know that by early Dec ’60 Gordy was having the L1(2 rush pressed at Monarch records in Calif. for distribution to the west coast. That’s where/when the unintentional A2 pressings were made. Do you think it reasonable that by Dec Gordy had decided that the L1(2 was the “best/most popular” version and decided to go strictly with THAT version? That might account for why you heard a different version than you owned being sung/lip synched on national television. And also why Tamla/Gordy would release the A2 (mid-western version) to the west coast. What do you think?
Thank you for clarifying the TCMS question. I’ve never heard of the set. Is it good? IS IT ACCURATE? I gave up on “Motown” box sets after they released the 1st Miracles box set. Which claimed that the A2 version of Shop Around was the “original Detroit only” release. I knew better. But by this time “Motown” was on it’s 4th or 5th owner and they likely didn’t know about the A1 version or have a tape of it.
In ’60, when Motown recalled the A1 in Detroit & the new L1(2 version was distributed the salesmen removed the remaining A1’s from stores and returned them to Motown. Where these 45’s as well as the master tapes were destroyed. Hence the only copies are sold/collected copies themselves. NO MASTER TAPES IN THE ARCHIVES.
There were however tapes of the A2 available. In fact, in late ’67, Gordy re-released several recordings by “early/then popular” Motown stars. Shop Around was one of these. Re-released in late ’67 during a TAMLA label “transition” period, the 1st several hundred copies got the old style “globe” labels while several thousands got the new “bar” style labels. ALL were released with the original release number 54034 A2 but ALL had newer style labels (NOT LINED LABELS). ALL of these re-releases were of the A2 version. At this same time Gordy also re-released many early efforts by other artists. On Tamla both “MONEY” by Barrett Strong (54027) and “WAY OVER THERE (w/strings)- (54028) were re-released. However they were pressed on (then) modern labels (globes or bar) but had the original release sequence numbers (54027/54028/54034).
Many “GORDY” label early releases were also re-released during this same period. Mostly early Temptation and Vandellas releases. And although in late ’67 “GORDY” labels had as yet not been changed from the “script” style, these re-releases can be indentified because of the color variation. Original releases are on a royal (dark) purple label while re-releases have a more “pinkish” (lighter) coloring.
NONE of these re-releases, to my knowledge, ever charted in ’67/’68. In fact they were re-released in limited quantities. Maybe 5000 to 7000 per song. Some more, some less.
The downside to these re-releases is that they diminish the value of the original. Especially in the case of the A2 Shop Around and “Money” on a Tamla label. What were once rarities with only 200 or so copies available have become much more obtainable with several thousand copies available.
As people turn back to “vinyl” and want these songs they are going to buy the cheaper re-releases 1st. AND MY NEVER KNOW THEY DON’T HAVE AN ORIGINAL. Or worse yet, NOT CARE.
Best of luck my new friend, and good health.
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I want you to know that I did not forget your most recent contribution to the “Shop Around” discussion but decided to reread all of the above comments before posting this response. First, about your questions:
It is certainly reasonable to suggest that Gordy determined the L1(2 version to be the best of the 3 L1s. However that doesn’t explain the origin of the video. We can agree that American Bandstand, if one were to assume that that show was the source of the video (which may be untrue), was still at least 3 years away from leaving Philadelphia for the west coast. If this video was filmed in Philadelphia, an east coast city, I would be surprised that the show would be using an L1 (2 version for the performance of the song for reasons you have already addressed. If the video came from a mid-west or west coast program, that would make more sense, always keeping in mind that the video version was NOT the L1 (1 heard and sold in the NYC metropolitan area.
Next, about The Complete Motown Singles. I must preface my remarks by stating that, although I consider myself an avid fan of Motown music, its singers, instrumentalists, writers, producers, etc, my activities in the enhancement of my appreciation of this R&B marvel has never risen to the level I’ve witnessed on the part of other contributors to this site. Their collections of Motown singles and albums make mine seem miniscule in comparison. About the only advantage I have over some of them, including the founder of this site, is that I was alive at the beginning of it all and got to enjoy the production and distribution of this music in real time. I did purchase many of the anthologies when they were introduced in the 70s.
And then in the early 2000s came an announcement on an R&B show on radio station WFDU, that Hip-oselect was going to compile box sets of every Motown single, A and B sides. When I heard it, I thought the DJ was either nuts or joking. Needless to say, neither was the case. I finally had the opportunity to make up for the many gaps in my Motown music possessions. So, to answer your question, yes, this is a perfect companion for the Motown Junkies site, and reading the well thought out reviews by Nixon has been the prerequisite for listening to the music, which I am doing chronologically as I have owned the complete set of volumes for only a little over a year. It’s a fun way to enjoy the music and learn a whole lot simultaneously. The volumes contain explanatory information for each song, but nothing like “Mr. Nixon’s.”
Thank you for your good, and timely, wishes. Tomorrow I will learn whether a PET-SCAN I had 3 days ago indicates a return of cancer within me. Best wishes and good health to you.
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Abbott, I truly wish you the best of luck as you get your results. I am 65 today (11/07) and gather you are at least a few years my senior. I also gather you live in England. I have responses to my posts sent to my email address so I know when someone responds and when checking my email it has a “time stamp” of 11:58 pm on 6th of Nov. However the motownjunkies site lists the (your) response as 5:58 am on Nov 7th. That time differential would place you in England or thereabouts. IF I AM CORRECT, and you are located in England, I wonder if you are acquainted with a chap named Gordon Graham? He occasionally sells on ebay as “oh yes I found it”. He is the chap who informed me that the 3 L1 versions of Shop Around are different mixes.
Personally I never paid much attention to those versions. I sold them for years at Detroit & Midwest record shows as well as in Goldmine & Discoveries magazines and although I knew they had different matrix’s I never bothered to “play” one against another to discern a difference. According to my English contact Gordon, one needs some rather pricey playback equipment (which he claims to have) to discern the difference. And I must admit that at my age I quite honestly don’t care. To me the uptempo “hit” version is just that – the “hit” version. My interest lies more in the rarer and obscure versions. I have 6 45’s of the song. I have an A1 matrix (55518 A2 label), I have a Monarch/west coast press, Gordt miss spelled, 55518 A2 label, matrix “55518 A2 delta 36968”. Also a Monarch/west coast press, Gordt miss spelled, 55518 A2 label, matrix “55518 L1(2 delta 37037”. I have the 1st Columbia/Chicago pressing with ZTSC 67018 on both the label and in the matrix (N0 55518 A2 ON THE LABEL OR L1 MATRIX — ONLY ZTSC 67018). I have the ’67 (bar label) re-release with 55518 A2 label and 55518 A2 matrix– the matrix however is not etched the same as the original ’60 release. The numbers are hand scribed and larger than the original, with the “2” slightly slanted and the bottom of the “2” trailing upward like the tail of a kite string. I also have, and this to me is quite unusual, the original Canadian release of the song On REO. The label, at the 9 o’clock position reads “8532X-S1”. At the 3 o’clock position it reads 8532X. The matrix contains the following– 45-8532-SIDE:1. The only other etching in the matrix is what I would call a capital H. OR, IT COULD BE two large “ones” (like Roman numerals) with a line through the middle. Looks like an H tho, with the line through the middle extending to both the left and right past the 2 vertical posts of the H.
Anyway, THIS REO copy plays the A1 (ORIGINAL 1st) version. The fellow I bought it from advertised it as the Canadian “alternate” version and also included a sound clip of the 1st half of the song. Upon hearing it I knew it was the A1 so I bought it. When I asked where he got it from he told me it was from a collection he bought from a gentleman who lived in Ontario, midway between Windsor and Toronto. Which makes sense. Windsor is half a mile SOUTH of Detroit. Home of 50,000 watt CKLW (then only an AM station) which reached, on a clear night, 38 states and 6 Provinces. But to get your record played on CKLW it HAD to be available in Canada. So Gordy released the A1 locally in Detroit only but also LEASED it to REO for release in Ontario. Whether REO released it outside of southern Ontario I don’t know. But, when Gordy recalled the Detroit release of the A!, he had NO control over the REO releases.
Anyway, if you’re looking for an affordably priced copy of the A1 version, watch for sales from Canada that say “alternate version”. It’s unlikely Canada had an “alternate version” of the A2, as, to my knowledge, the A2 was pressed ONLY by Monarch Records of southern California in the first 10 days of Dec ’60.
NOW, tell me more about this “all inclusive” CD box set you’ve been talking about. Does it have the A1 and A2 versions of Shop Around? Does it include ALL the releases of Tamla 54028? Those would be “The Feeling Is So Fine”, Way Over There (NO strings), Way Over There (WITH strings). My research material notes two DIFFERENT versions of “The Feeling Is So Fine” but that same material DOESN’T LIST MATRIX NUMBERS. I have a copy of “The Feeling Is So Fine” but I have NO idea which of the two supposed releases I have. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN THERE WERE TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS RELEASED! Does your set have the 3 releases of Motown 1006? Does it have the two different versions of “Jamie” by Eddie Holland? Different versions of “My Beloved” by The Satintones? The versions of “Money” by The Miracles (1st version–on END) and by Barrett Strong (2nd version–on Tamla54027 then Anna 1111)? The two versions of “When I’m Gone” by Brenda Holloway? IF it has all those I’d be impressed!
About that video that you and others on the site are relating to: I’ve never seen it. Is there a link I can follow to watch it? As I said, I gather you may live in England and are likely not familiar with local Detroit TV programming. But there used to be a local TV dance program on CKLW TV called Swingin’ Time. Hosted by CKLW DJ Robin Seymore and broadcast from channel 9 in Windsor, it was on every weekday afternoon for 30 minutes and for an hour every Saturday. It tried to follow the basic pattern of American Bandstand but most often showcased local talent with an occasional visit from whatever out-of-town group that happened to be performing in the area. The set was generally poorly lit and the dance floor was made of alternating black and white squares (like a ’50’s diner). As I said, i haven’t seen the video you refer to, but if it has any of the characteristics of the Swingin’ Time set then it’s possible it was filmed in Windsor,Ont. If so, it could have ANY version that was released between Sept and Dec of ’60. Or, still, IF it was recorded in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver (etc) it could be the A1 version sung to promote the REO release.
Let me know what you think? And if possible send me a link to the video. Best of luck with your PET scan results.
Bob Moga
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Hello Bob. No news yet from the doctor. No news=good news? Who knows, but I thank you once again for your kind words and good wishes.
Also I wish you a very happy 65th birthday, belatedly. I remember my 65th long long ago (not really). It was celebrated at a restaurant with friends and former co-workers. I’ve been alerted that a similar affair is in the works for #70 in less than a month. There will be no British items on the menu unless by coincidence as these celebrations were and will be in or near New York City where I reside. The reason for the crazy times on my posts is that I am, always was, and always will be a night person who is comfortable being awake at hours when most (actually all) of my friends and neighbors are fast asleep. So you can understand why I do not look forward to any hospital time where the schedules are as foreign to me as living on Mars.
I am keying this sentence at 1:45AM where I am. So working folks are awakening about now where you thought I lived. Unfortunately, your friend Gordon will have to do without me.
Now for the REALLY important matters. When I was in my teens, I was extremely envious of record store owners and personnel for their access to all those songs I wanted to possess but couldn’t afford. You truly lived a fantasy of mine and your access to all you have mentioned above as well as all that knowledge impresses me greatly. I certainly DID have access to CKLW “in the Motor City” as the jingle went, even if it wasn’t true. I spent many evenings listening to Tommy Shannon because the DJs in NYC could not satisfy my craving for Motown music, and it seemed as though 2 of every 3 songs he played originated in Hitsville, but I may be exaggerating a little. To reach the signal, I had to place my radio on the windowsill in my bedroom, the only location in my apartment in Rego Park, Queens where Tommy could be heard. How’s that for good luck?
It’s going to take me a bit of time to research the answers to all your questions, but here’s what I can tell you from memory. The Complete Motown Singles is not quite as complete as you would have preferred. There are but 2 versions of “Shop Around:” a slow paced A version which the TCMS refers to as the regional version and the L1 (1 version which they call the national version. Because my set is in CD form and not vinyl form, obviously much information is unavailable. As previously stated, I know the so-called national version is L1(1 because it is identical to the song on the one 45 copy I own, purchased in NYC. Additionally, TCMS has 2 versions of “Way Over There,” one without strings, the other with. There is but one version of Barrett Strong’s “Money.” Each of the 14 volumes contains one vinyl record within its front cover. In the case of Volume 1, that single is the Tamla version of “Money.” I personally own an Anna version purchased in 1959. I will endeavor to give you more info on that and all your other queries ASAP.
Finally, the video. No links are necessary. Just scroll up to the comment section for this song. When you see a photo of the Miracles, you are there. I watched the video again earlier and am more likely to conclude that it was not from American Bandstand. The kids are sitting on the right side, not the left. In addition, there’s no checkerboard floor, which may also eliminate the program you mentioned above. Perhaps that fence in the background that looks like it could be used to grow grapevines may help to identify its location. Good luck with that. I will be back soon. Be well, and thanks again.
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Abbott, I should have known you were on the east coast based on your earlier post that you were in N Y C when the song was released. The time stamp on your post at motownjunkies fooled me into thinking it was sent at 5:58 am while my email site recorded it as being received at 11;58 pm the previous night. I guess our posts are 1st relayed to the motownjunkies “home base” (located in England) before being relayed to my U S based Yahoo email address? That would account for the 6 hour time difference in posting times. When I (long ago) used to advertise in Goldmine and later DISCoveries magazines I would get calls from England, France, Begium at all kinds of strange hours. I lived in suburban Detroit at the time and there is a 6 hour time difference between England & Detroit. Someone would call me at 9pm their time but it would be 3 am my time.
I KNOW EXACTLY what you are talking about when you say when you relate to keeping late hours. I, too, am what people where I’m from would call a “night owl”. I wake up about 11:30 am central time and I’m up until about 4 am most nights. Sometimes me and the dog take an hour nap in the late afternoon. Seems that anymore the best stuff (reruns) comes on cable TV about midnight.
The CD set you keep referring to sounds interesting. I would guess that the 45’s you say are included are reproductions? There is a company located in Nashville called THIRD MAN RECORDS that apparently has obtained the rights from Motowns current owner to reproduce the earliest Tamla and Motown releases-ESPECIALLY the rare stuff. These reproductions (on reproduced lined labels) all have TMR written on the labels. Usually at the 9 o’clock position. Are these the 45’s that come with your CD set?
I haven’t yet viewed the video you speak of. I thought I’d answer your comment first. Plus, it’ 3:35 CST here and I’m getting to make myself a pizza for dinner so I may wait until tomorrow to check out the video.
By the way, the Miracles version of “Money” likely would NOT be included in your CD set as it was released in ’58 on END records (END is a New York City label tho). Gordy gets his name in the writers credits and he got The Miracles the 2 record deal at END. I believe it’s the flip side of “Got A Job” (answer song to “Get A Job”). In any case it’s extremely similar to Barrett Strongs version (Tamla 54027/Anna 1111) which also carries Gordy’s name in the 1st writers’ credit. The Strong version has a much more “gruff” vocal style which fits the song so much better than Robinson’s lighter, more effeminant style. The song required a much more harsh male lead than Robinson’s vocal range could produce.
Anyway, off to make my pizza. I wish you well and good health! Bob moga
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Once again, I am going to start a new stream immediately below to rid myself of these pesky narrowing columns.
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NEWS FLASH…Check out the comments, and 2nd video for Song #511 “Come On Do The Jerk,” and you will see that we have clear and convincing evidence that the video seen in the “Shop Around” comments above came from the Teen Town show that originated in the Detroit/Windsor, Ontario area.
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Ahhh. Room to breathe. Hi, Robert. Nothing from the doctor, so I will accept that as a +. The first thing I did in response to your most recent message was to attempt to learn the number of copies of The Complete Motown Singles that were manufactured, volume by volume. However I was unable to locate a source for such information. I do remember hearing, when this enterprise was in the planning stage, that there would be a finite amount of each volume, meaning that, over time, the value of each volume would increase as it became harder to find. This has become quite evident regarding Volume 6 (1966), the rarest of all the volumes. That being said, the original output had to be in the tens of thousands, I suppose. Therefore, having noticed that there is no TMR on the labels of the vinyl single accompanying each volume, I accede to your suggestion that such records are reproductions.
I happen to own the Miracles’ version of “Money,” not as a single, but as a track from an LP entitled “Whatever Makes You Happy,” on Rhino Records. It is a collection of B-sides, really good B-sides, and maybe album cuts too, so I’m very much familiar with Smokey’s “Money.” I only wish I had some of Smokey’s money. Amidst my preparation Wednesday for Thursday’s colonoscopy (unrelated to the cancer stuff; I’m a medical multi-tasker), I will continue to research the responses to your previous questions, and I continue to wish you well.
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Hi, Bob. Here are the rest of my answers. First, to review my responses to Questions 1 & 2. I don’t know if the A version of “Shop Around” is A1 or A2. The editors of TCMS never intended to make their song descriptions so detailed. My ears tell me that the L version is L1 (1….Answer 2) As indicated above, there are 2 versions of “Way Over There.”…3)There is but one version of “The Feeling Is So Fine.”…4)Yes, “Tomorrow And Always” include 2 versions: without strings, and with….5)There is only 1 version for “Jamie.”…6)”My Beloved” has 2 versions: no strings and strings….6)There is no version of “Money” by the Miracles in this compilation by virtue of a set of restrictions enacted by the editors. They chose to confine the contents of these volumes to records contained on the Motown imprints such as Tamla, Motown, Miracle, Gordy, Divinity, Melody, VIP, Soul, Workshop Jazz, etc.So, Smokey’s “Money,” being an End Record, was excluded Having said that, the editors did make some exceptions. To illustrate three: The Velvelettes’ “There He Goes” b/w “That’s The Reason Why” (1963) were on the IPG label. “Set Me Free” (1964) by WXYZ DJ Lee Alan was on an unlabled record done for charitable purposes. The Supremes’ “The Only Time I’m Happy” (1965) was put out on George Anderson Records with a 5-minutes Supremes interview on the B-side, intended only for DJs. The story behind the IPG record is a long one explained in the narrative accompanying the songs. And now here’s a fun fact: When Motown assembled the Miracles Anthology in the 1970s, it chose to include “Got A Job” as the initial track, notwithstanding that it was not originally released as Motown record….Finally 8)”When I’m Gone” has 2 versions.
So there you have it. Using your own word, I do not know how impressed you may be by this compilation. What I can inform you is that several years ago when I began to entertain the thought of purchasing the entire collection, I happened upon an even more complete Complete Motown Singles on the Internet. It was a vinyl collection that contained a dozen to fifteen extra songs that preceded Marv Johnson’s “Come To Me,” the first entry in my Volume 1. I assume it included the 2 songs that are reviewed by Mr. Nixon on this site before the “Come To Me” review. I can no longer locate this compilation and therefore cannot confirm whether it includes versions of other songs that are not in mine. As always, best regards.
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Thank you so much for your box set info. I am not really into cd’s. I used to buy box sets long ago when they first came out but soured on most of them quickly. Too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I found that many songs featured on the sets I bought were NOT the songs on the original 45’s. Call them “alternate takes” or “album takes” or just “out takes” some were definately not from the orig 45 releases.
That said, I must also say the TCMS set(s) you refer to sound intriguing. I’m guessing, from what you say (’66 is the hardest to find) that the “set” is sold by year of (the songs included) issue rather than by label released on. Interesting. But I myself prefer the 45’s.
Now onto other subjects. You say the set has an “A” version of Shop Around but you don’t know if it is A1 or A2. I can help with that. There are several, what I would call minor, differences between the two (I have both 45’s). But the BEST way to tell is this- At maybe just past the half way point of the song there are the following lyrics IN ALL 3 versions (A1, A2 & L1)—–
Ah try to get yourself a bargain son
Don’t be sold on the very first one
Ah pretty girls come a dime a dozen
STOP HERE – In the A1 AND L1 versions the next line is:
Try to find one WHO’S gonna give you true lovin’
But in the A2 version the next line is:
Try to find one THAT’S gonna give you true lovin’
And now for the most obvious difference between the A1 and A2 versions (on the 45’s). And that is this: The A1 has, immediately following the verses listed above, the following two verses THAT ARE NOT IN THE A2 version —–
Before you take a girl and say I do now
Make sure that her love is true now
This line is NOT in the A2 version. IT IS HOWEVER, in the L1 version EXCEPT that in the L1 version the phrase “Ah,” is added before the line MAKE SURE THAT HER LOVE IS TRUE NOW.
Following those lyrics ALL 3 versions have the following:
My momma told me
You better shop around
NOW, in the A2 there is an added verse —–
Uh huh you better shop around
This verse IS NOT IN THE A1 Or L1 versions.
I hope you were able to follow along here and that this information is helpful in determining which “A” version is in your set. If I had to wager money I’d bet your set contains the A2, just as my MIRACLES box set does. My box set claims the A2 as the “original Detroit only” issue but that is a false claim made by whatever company had purchased “Motown” after it’s original sale. They worked with whatever they were provided and at that time had NO idea there was an earlier release. The (A1) masters were destroyed in 1960. So they went with the archives.
On to another subject— JAMIE by Eddie Holland.
I can guarantee you there are two versions of the song on orig 45’s. I ran across this sometime in the early ’90’s.
I used to advertise (WAY before EBAY & computer ads) in DISCoveries & GOLDMINE trade magazines. I had 30,000 45’s at the time and many duplicates. I was going to list JAMIE in an upcoming ad and had 3 or 4 copies of the song. All appeared to be in EX condition so I began play grading the 45’s to verify sound quality. My plan was to list the song ONCE and, if I had multiple bids, sell as many as I had bids on (all 45’s sounding/appearing equal). It was during my sound checks I noticed the difference in the songs. SUBTLE, but there. Upon inspecting the labels & matrix markings it was apparent there were TWO versions.
The most “common” version appears to be the 45 with H 912 on the label & in the matrix as well as having ZTSC 84181 in the matrix and often on the label.
The ALTERNATE (less likely to find) version has a label and matrix number that begins with 11 and contains four digits (11xx).
I’m sorry I can’t give you much more information than that. It was, after all, over 25 years ago and all my copies were sold. I CAN however describe what I noted to be the difference between the two versions and that is that in one of them Holland pronounces the word HAIR as “HARR” while in the other version he enunciates the word “HAIR” VERY CLEARLY and properly.
Not trying to sound discriminatory here in ANY way, BUT, people raised in the south, including African Americans, tend to pronounce the word “hair” as “harr”.
To make the song more “acceptable” to a northern audience Gordy may have ordered it redone with a better, more acceptable to a national audience, vocal. I cannot recall the ZTSC number of the song. But the fact it has a ZTSC number means it was pressed by Columbia/Chicago (a favorite of Gordy until ’64).
Before posting this I checked the EBAY listings for this song and out of about a dozen up for sale ALL are H 912 label listings.
So what is on your “box set”? HAIR or HARR?
In closing, I wish you well my new friend with your health concerns. I myself had 9 upper teeth and root remnants removed on the 9th in preparation for a new upper plate. OUCH! Lets stay in touch.
Your friend, Bob Moga
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Hello, Mr. Moga. I offer humble apologies for my delayed response. My days have been full of late, and I always endeavor to prepare complete answers to all the issues you present in your posts, so let’s begin: Your distaste for CDs in favor of 45s makes you one of the the purest purists in the record collecting realm, and I value your dedication, as well as that of several other contributors to this site, to the celebration of this great enterprise whose talent and products we hold so dear. I can assure you that the contents of TCMS is the real deal. Alternative versions are always labeled as such, and listeners who are old enough will hear at least one version that they remember hearing when the record was released, except in those rare instances (“Shop Around”) where they lived in an area where the so-called national hit was not the one played and sold in their town. Of course, we’ve been through that discussion. There are no knock-offs or imports in TCMS.
Regarding volume numbers in the series, Volume 1 of TCMS covers 3 years (1959-1961) which was possible because of the limited output of a company in its infancy. For the next 8 years, the volume number matched the last digit of the year whose records were contained within. That streak ended with 1970 whose songs are in Volume 10. In 1971 & 1972, the record output was great enough to require 2 volumes per year: Volumes 11A & 11B in 1971; 12A & 12B in 1972. And that’s where it ends. The producers and just about everyone else appeared to agree that there was insufficient interest among potential consumers for such an undertaking beyond 1972. That’s not to say there wasn’t good music still coming out of the company. There just wasn’t enough of it to justify the production of further volumes. I did purchase the Hitsville boxed set which covers 1972-1979, but the set includes only 64 tracks. Needless to say, I would have appreciated some others not included therein.
Thanks to your excellent clues, I can assure you that the A version of “Shop Around” that appears in Volume 1 of TCMS is A1, NOT A2 as you suggested. Smokey sings “who” in the line in question, and the record contains the 2 lines missing from the A2 version.
Now for the one version of “Jamie” appearing in the same volume, but on a different disc than “Shop Around,” I definitely hear Mr. Holland singing clearly about “hair” and not “harr.” This should solve that mystery.
I sympathize with you over the misery you endured from the dental work and hope that the healing process and any further required work will engender less discomfort. As for myself, my scan revealed no malignancy in the area of interest, but raised serious questions in another area. I will have further procedures in 2 days to see what that’s about. Thanking you again for your concern, I will respond to your other posting ASAP. Kindest regards.
Your pal, Abbott
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Abbott, good to hear from you. i was worried about your health and waiting for a reply from you. Sorry to hear you have new health concerns. Wish you the best of luck. My dental surgery went well. two hours afterward I had an upper plate fitted. I was quite sore for several days but it’s getting better little by little. Still refuse to take the narcotic pain meds I was prescribed. Just stubborn I guess but I try to stay away from any narcotic if at all possible.
I’m sure other site members are tired of us relating our health problems to each other (I wish there were a way to, on occasion, communicate with each other “off site” but I don’t see a way) so onto the music discussion.
Before beginning this response I once again checked the ads on ebay for copies of JAMIE (Eddie Holland- Motown 1021) and once again found all (that display a photo of the “A” side) to be H-912 versions. I DID FIND ONE AD THAT LISTED THE H-912 ITEM AS THE “2:15 version”. That says to me that at least one of these sellers knows there is more than one version!
Another thing I noticed about the 45 rpm copies of Jamie up for sale is that at least 6 are “DR” copies.
Are you familiar with the “DR” writing on the labels of older original Motown (the Tamla/Motown “family” of) labels from the early ’60’s? There are thousands of “Motown (family of) labels” issued between ’60 & late ’63 (to MAYBE early ’64) with “DR” written on one side or the other of the label, but that’s a whole ‘nother story!
I’m not sure if the Jamie H-912’s with DR on the label were left over (then new) stock from the 2nd version or recalled 1st versions. I’d have to hear one to tell. But it seems to be a tell tale about the H-912 release.
Maybe it’s just not important to most people, but I noticed the difference in the wording quickly. Add that to the seller who, by his/her notation of “2:15 version” that there is a time difference as well, so there MAY be other less obvious differences I missed 20+ years ago!
Should I find out more I will let you know.
Try and stay healthy, my new friend Abbott,
Bob
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Dear Abbott, regret I haven’t heard from you lately. I’m hoping it’s due to the recent holiday and not your health.
I’m writing to tell you, if you’re interested, that I have recently found the “alternate” version of “Jamie” up for sale on ebay.
It’s 3 am and I was just crusing around the site to see whats up for sale and put “Eddie Holland” in the search box with Music as the category. Once I got that up I narrowed the search to “45’s”.
The alternate version is up for set sale by “rebel.records, Tamworth,U.K.”. The ad only shows the label with the record in a sleeve (can’t see the vinyl). Label looks pristine. To find the ad on ebay go through the search as I explained and scroll until you find ads closing on Dec. 23rd.
The label has the same ZTSC 84181 on it that the H 912 version has HOWEVER THE TIME IS LISTED AS 2:21 — NOT 2:15 as is the H 912.
Just trying to prove my point here — that there ARE 2 VERSIONS!
Hope you are well and enjoyed the holiday! Best, your friend BOB
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Hi, Bob. Once again, I apologize for the delay in my response. I have been an innocent victim of delayed responses from my doctors as they consult with one another to determine an appropriate response to what’s going on within. I hope to hear from them shortly. Most likely, it’s on to an oncologist for the real deal. December should be a “fun” month.
Regarding the availability of the “other” version of “Jamie,” I never doubted the existence of a second version, especially if you were the source of this information. The fact that Volume 1 of TCMS contains but one version in no way discounted the possibility that there is another one out there, which you were successful in locating once again. and I thank you for informing me and all others who regularly view this site of its availability. As I’ve mentioned previously, I am not that avid a collector of recordings to feel that I must be in possession of both versions, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you succeeded in tipping off other Junkies to a means of acquiring it, and for that, you have performed a good deed. Stay in touch, and I wish you and all a happy and healthy holiday season.
Your buddy, Abbott
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Dear Abbott, sorry to hear you soon expect the need to visit an oncologist. From our banter back and forth I presume you to be somewhere around 74 years young. I, myself, as I believe I mentioned in an earlier post, just turned 65. So I’m expecting my health problems to soon escalate to match yours.
As regards Jamie, I did find that the “dead wax etching” on the two versions are as follows– H-912 (time listed on label as 2:15) H-1121 (time listed on label as 2:21).
From your postings I gather that although you love “the music” you are not a collector of the original (early) issues on 45’s. Rather, possibly, preferring the more modern format of QUALITY CD’s.
They ARE certainly space savers!
I on the other hand grew up with 45’s and NEVER was interested in other formats. Oh sure, I put an “add on” 8 track tape player in my cars over several years (and several cars!). But I just never got into albums very much. Occasionally a “greatest hits” offering by an artist/group I really liked (but I had to REALLY like them). The advent of cassette tapes ended all that for me. NEVER really liked them. I would prefer 8 tracks to cassettes. Press a button and get a different track/different song! Much better that trying to fast forward a cassette tape while driving! CD’s struck me as simply an effort by manufactures to force me to (again) buy new equipment and replace (again) the music. CD’s have their place I suppose but will never replace original vinyl as regards older music. My opinion.
I must thank you for your high accolades regarding my knowledge of “Motown” (family of releases). But, in the scheme of things, there are MANY who know more that I. And I am still learning! I simply try to share what I have learned from collecting and ESPECIALLY SELLING these items over the years.
I have never been an exclusive collector of just the Tamla/Motown “family” of releases. I am an (and I know I will spell this wrong) ecclectic collector. I like 60’s “garage”, “doo-wop”, R & B, “pop” and other varieties of music as well as “Motown”.
So, you never answered a previous reference I made. That was, are you familiar with WHY SO MANY EARLY MOTOWN (family of labels) HAVE “DR” WRITTEN ON THE LABELS?
Best, Your Friend , Bob
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Hey, Bob. I am moving to a new thread below. I’m too claustrophobic for these narrowing columns.
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Hi guys!
Thanks for posting really informative comments on this recording.
I’ve got several copies of “Shop Around” on vinyl including the Canadian REO disc that’s supposed to be the original “slow” version as well as the Miracles first album “Hi We’re The Miracles” (mono) and Mono and Stereo versions of the double album “The Miracles Greatest Hits From The Beginning” and numerous CD’s where the song is also featured.
Now I must confess I’m completely baffled by all this info and my hearing isn’t sufficiently acute to be able to distinguish the differences in the various versions when I play them! Indeed until your recent comments just above I was also unaware that in addition to the musical nuances there were also lyric changes between variations to deal with as well, so it looks like it’s back to the drawing board for me yet again in an effort to work out which of the variations I actually have!
Anyway, as well as the Canadian REO copy of “Shop Around” here are the details taken from the vinyl of the remaining versions I have. All are released on Tamla and all are on the early “stripes” label.
1. ZTSC-67018 printed on the label with this repeated in hand-written script in the dead wax, followed by what looks like a very small 1A and a “Bell Sound” pressing stamp.
2. H-55518-A2 printed only on the label. The dead wax has L1 followed very faintly by what appears to be a tiny (1.
(stamped only on the “B” side is a “Bell Sound” pressing stamp.
3. H-55518-A1 printed only on the label. The dead wax has L1 handwritten and followed by a tiny (2. There is also what appears to be a very small AM or maybe DM hand written as well immediately following the (2.
and finally
4. (H-55518-A2) printed only on the label. This copy has the mis-spelt “Gordt” writing credit. The dead wax has a hand written L1 (3), but this time in addition to that final bracket following the 3, the L1 is prefaced by “45 -” and followed by a Monarch Pressing “MR” enclosed in a circle and with the ∆37073 Matrix number.
Can anyone help by telling me which of the various released versions each of these discs represents? All your contributions and comments will be very much appreciated.
On to “The Complete Motown Singles” Box Sets (TCMS)
To clarify some comments / queries regarding the “Complete Motown Singles box set here are some snippets of info. that I hope those who don’t yet own these will find useful
First up, this was originally conceived to be a set of 10, but as work on each year volume progressed the compilers realized that with the increasing rise of FM Radio stations, Motown like many other Record Companies, began to issue two sided Promo singles featuring a Mono and a Stereo version of the “A” side on either side. Consequently to accommodate these extra variations it became impracticable to fit all into a manageable single “box” and it was decided that for 1971 and 1972, each year would be split into two 6 month periods – 11A and 11B for 1971 and 12A and 12B for ’72.
The vinyl discs included in the front cover pocket of each set were pressed up specifically for each year and represent a significant release for that year. In all respects bar one they are exact replicas of the original releases, the exception being the absence of the original matrix numbers. Instead, each carries the number appropriate to the box set in which it is contained.
They were:
Box 1 (1959-1961) “Money (That’s What I Want)” / “Oh I Apoligize” – Barrett Strong (complete with the original misspelling of “Apologize”!
Box 2 (1962) “You Beat Me To The Punch” / “Old Love (Let’s Try It Again)” – Mary Wells
Box 3 (1963) “Heat Wave” / “A Love Like Yours (Don’t Come Knocking Everyday)” – Martha and The Vandellas
Box 4 (1964) “Where Did Our Love Go” / “He Means The World To Me” – The Supremes
Box 5 (1965) “Uptight (Everything’s Alright)” / “Purple Rain Drops” – Stevie Wonder
Box 6 (1966) “Reach Out I’ll Be There” / “Until You Love Someone” – Four Tops
Box 7 (1967) “I Heard It Through The Grapevine” / “It’s Time To Go Now” – Gladys Knight and The Pips
Box 8 (1968) “I Heard It Through The Grapevine” / “You’re What’s Happening (In The World Today)” – Marvin Gaye
Box 9 (1969) “! Wan’t You Back” / “Who’s Lovin You” (with the apostrophe at the end of “Lovin'” missing – The Jackson 5.
Box 10 (1970) “The Tears Of A Clown” / “Promise Me” – Smokey Robinson and The Miracles
Box 11A (Jan. – June 1971) “What’s Going On” / “God Is Love” – Marvin Gaye
Box 11B (July – Dec. 1971) “Got To Be There” / “Maria (You Were The Only One)”
Box 12A (Jan. – June 1972) “Somebody Up There” / “But I Love You More” – The Blackberries
Box 12B (July – Dec. 1972) “Papa Was A Rollin’ Stone (Vocal)” / “Papa Was A Rollin’ Stone (Instrumental)” – The Temptations
The original production quantities of each of the years releases are as follows:
1. – 5,000
2. – 8,000
3. – 7,500
4 and 5 – 8,000
6, 7, 8 and 9 – 6,000
10, 11A and 11B – 8,000
12A and 12B – 7,500
(As Box 6 sold out quickly I believe additional copies were later made available).
OK that’s it – apologies for the length of this posting – I’ll now go and prepare to hibernate ’til spring arrives LOL.
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Hey “Johnny”… I may be able to give you some insight on the 5 copies of Shop Around you have.
I’ve searched my remaining few hundred 45’s and found that I have 8 copies of Shop Around instead of the 6 copies I related to in earlier posts.
Of those at least 4 of them are the same label/matrix combinations you refer to as having. Which in your post you refer to as #’s 1, 2, 3, and 4.
But lets begin with your first reference (which you didn’t number). That is your REO copy. It is, first of all, beyond question, a Canadian pressing.
I, too, have a REO pressing. Mine I know is the Canadian “alternate” pressing because I also own the original “Detroit only” U.S. alternate (and 1st original) pressing with a matrix of 55518-A1. My REO copy plays the IDENTICAL song as my U.S. A1 pressing. That’s why it is a Canadian “alternate” version.
So I would respectfully suggest to you that if you, as you state, cannot notice ANY difference in the song from your other (U.S. pressed) 45’s, then you DO NOT HAVE THE “CANADIAN” ALTERNATE VERSION. What you likely have is the Canadian “hit” version of the song (also leased to/released by) REO. Think about it. If there’s an “alternate” then there’s another version too. And that version was (a variation of) L!.
As regards your 4 other copies—– ALL ARE AN L1 VERSION. So if you’re comparing your REO release to an L1 version that you own (and, as you state, your “hearing” is not sufficiently acute enough to distinguish a difference in the songs) then you are trying to compare an L1 version to an L1 version and that is QUITE difficult to do! It comes down to this “Johnny”. IF you had the alternate (A1) version on REO there is NO WAY you could mistake it for the L1 “hit” version. NO WAY. The “alternates” (both A1 & A2) are, besides lyriclly different but also have a much slower “bluesy” tempo and are more sax & piano based rather than guitar based background orientated.
So your REO copy is likely NOT an “alternate” but rather the (Canadian) “hit” version.
On to info about your “other” 4 copies. As stated above, ALL are L1 “Hit” versions.I say “versions” because, as you can see from your own copies, they have either (1, (2 or (3 in VERY small writing that follows the “1” in “L1”. (I’ll get to the “even smaller” writing later).
So let’s start. You list 4 different U.S. 45’s. Your #1 is ZTSC 67018. This is a record pressed, in limited quantity, by Columbia Records (Special Products Division) contracted through their Chicago offices and likely manufactured in Terre Haute, IN. Although the label AND matrix numbers are ZTSC 67018 this is an L1 version. Most likely an L1(2. The L1(2 was designated for release in the midwest and Chicago lies in the heart of the midwest. Also, L1(2 was the first “uptempo/hit” version released in Detroit. Chicago, being only 4 hours from Detroit by car would likely receive the same song/version as that to be sold in Detroit. Add to that the fact that Columbia/Chicago was, until ’64, B. Gordys’ “go to” company to get anything more than a few hundred pressings of his up’n’coming companies records pressed. The “ZTSC 67018” is an itra-compant reference to let the press operator know what is to be pressed. The alpha code breakdown is as follows– Z= 7inch (size of record to be pressed. T= 45 rpm (speed of record to be pressed). S= styrene (A form of vinyl) the substrate to use for the pressing. And C= the Columbia office that holds the pressing contract (in this case C= Chicago). The numbers 67018 relate to the “contract” number. Tamla/Motown (B. Gordy) had used Columbia/Chicago before and had an open contract with them. That contract number was 67. All pressings for Tamla/Motown fell under the 67 prefix. THIS release (Shop Around) was the 18th pressing under that contract. The flip side “Who’s Lovin’ You” was the 19th pressing and if you flip your record over you should find it has ZTSC 67019 on the label and in the matrix. Even numbers were “A” sides. Odd numbers “B” sides.
But WHY put that number on the record instead of the 55518-A2/ L1? Because this came to Columbia/Chicago as a “rush” order. The box the tape came in had THREE different reference numbers on it (A1, A2 & L1). Confused and in a hurry the supervisor decided to simply label & master it by it’s contract number while awaiting clarification from Gordy. Which came soon. But about 7500 of these pressings were released before the labels became 55518 A2 & matrixed L1(2. So you have a hard to find first press (by Columbia) of the L1 version.
Your #2 is: H 55518-A2 label/L1(1 matrix. In all likely hood the best selling of the three L1 matrix’s. As stated many times before, there are 3 L1 matrixed pressings. L1(1, L1(2 & L1(3. The L1(1 was the east coast released matrix. In ’60, as now, the east coast of the U.S. is the most densely populated. Boston, New York, Philadelphia and sooo many more large cities on down the coast. Likely the most common version but not to those in the midwest or west coast.
Your #3 is: H55518-A1 label/L1(2 matrix. Of the 45’s you have THIS is likely the RAREST. Maybe not the most valuable, but the rarest (of what you say you have). THIS 45 was pressed at the same plant that pressed the original (for sale ONLY in Detroit) A1 (FIRST SHOP AROUND VERSION). First presses of the A1 received the A2 label as A2 had been scheduled for release but changed to A! at the last minute. So the first labels printed were H 55518-A2. During the press run the labels were corrected to read H 55518-A1 but more labels were made than records pressed so A1 labels were left over. Then the A1 was withdrawn, to be replaced by, again, the A2. So MORE H 55518-A2 labels were ordered. BUT, the L! (uptempo/”hit” version was recorded before the A2 was shipped. The L1(2 replaced the “still unreleased” A2 and went to several companies for pressing (like Columbia, which got confused). But when the order was received by the plant that had originally pressed the A! that plant put the leftover A1 labels on the first L1(2’s out of the presses. So what you have here is, like mine, one of only a couple hundred or so ORIGINAL FIRST PRESSINGS OF THE L1(2 “HIT” VERSION. Actually even rarer because it’s a “stock” label. Most left over A1 labels were white label DJ/Advance Sample printings.
Your #4 is: H 55518-A2 (Gordt miss spelled label/L1(3) matrix. As you may know, this is a west coast pressing manufactured by Monarch Records in southern California. You say it has an L1(3 matrix with an etching of (delta) 37073. That is standard for the L1(3). This records claim to fame is the miss spelling of the 1st writers credit as Gordt instead of Gordy. It IS never the less uncommon. It was manufactured in early Dec ’60. It is one of the first 25,000+ records pressed by Monarch during their initial press run. Subsequent press runs got the spelling correct. Making this an “oddity” (California) first pressing. Monarchs ’60 pressings for Tamla/Motown have a distinctive label printing which is easily identifiable by sight. During 1960 Monarch was contracted to press 3 (to my knowledge) records for Tamla/Motown. On each of these the title has a distinctively different “font” style than east coast pressings. Those 3 records were Motown 1006 – Tomorrow & Always (WITH strings) (Satintones), Tamla 54028 – Way Over There (WITH strings) (Miracles) and Tamla 54034 – Shop Around (L1(3 version AND thru Motown office error A2) (Miracles). There are two distinctive “font” or lettering differences in the title of each song. First, the letters in the titles of the songs is not as high as in east coast pressings. Secondly, the spacing between the letters in the song titles is wider. The song titles are more elongated. Using Shop Around as an example, an east coast pressed record will have the song title as SHOP AROUND while the Monarch pressed west coast title will be S H O P A R O U N D. Same goes for the other two titles pressed by Monarch.
Lastly, on to your notation that on your A1 label/L1(2 matrix copy you see VERY SMALL lettering in the matrix that looks like am or dm. My identical copy also has a minute’ etching that looks to me like either dm OR t.m or even tjm where the j is part of the first “leg” of the m. BUT there’s more! On my ZTSC copy there is either 1B or IB, after the 67018 0r 67019 matrix (on each side). Both my Monarch copies (A2 & L1(3 have NO notation). On my A1 matrix copy, the “B” side has what appears to be a VERY SMALL “DM” following the H55546 matrix. My REO copy has what appears to be a capital letter H in the matrix.
I have a theory about these notations that can possibly confirmed by other members of the site, or MAYBE by Robb Klein himself (if he’s forgiven me for an earlier disagreement). That is that whatever engineer manufactured/etched the metal master added his initials or “code” onto the master so that all professionals who viewed the record would know he/she did quality work. This is not unheard of in the record industry. A number of engineers who later became well known put their “personal touches” on masters they produced.
Any one out there have an opinion???
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Hi Bob, thanks for all the detailed information you provided on the various different pressings of “Shop Around”. I knew a fair amount about what was pressed at the different pressing plants, but not about all the different takes. As to the scratching of a “personal code” for individual masterers, I’ve never heard of that. I have no idea whether or not that was done. Too bad that one of my good friends in the business, Ron Murphy, is now deceased. He was a record masterer working in Detroit, and also had a few of his own record labels. He was also extremely knowledgeable about pressing plants, their policies and coding systems, and the different mastering firms. “DM” to me, always meant “duplicate master”. But that was always followed by a code number, NOT at the end. So, maybe DM ARE the initials of the masterer. I had planned to reply to your 12/9 post on this page, about “Bad Girl”, as I still have a disagreement with one thing you stated. But, Stephane, inconveniently, left the reply button off that post. So no one can reply to it. I have still never seen any documented proof that The Gordys incorporated Tamla Records, and only first incorporated Motown Record Corporation after running Tamla and Motown for a few years. I remember them making a big deal about it. I believe that all The internet references had the same ultimate origin, which was ambiguous, and referred to Tamla Records being registered as a business in The City of Detroit and State of Michigan, in 1959, and was incorporated later. The blurb on Motown records’ Official website is also ambiguous, as to when the actual incorporation occurred. Seeing short “historical paragraphs” outlining the history of Motown, which all could have originated from a single official ambiguously-worded article, does not convince me that my memory is wrong. That is public information, so the irrefutable evidence should be able to be found. Until then, I will still go by my memory.
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This is what I found on Wikipedia: “The record company was founded by Berry Gordy, Jr. as Tamla Records on January 12, 1959,[1][2] and was incorporated as Motown Record Corporation on April 14, 1960, in Detroit, Michigan. There was no reference to Tamla having been incorporated in 1959. Rather, that Tamla Records was founded (e.g. received its business license to operate within The City of Detroit and State of Michigan). This jibes with my memory. As I remember, Tamla Records was operated as a partnership of Berry and Raynoma, with the family members who provided the loan as creditors, and after incorporation in April 1960, other family members got some stock (Ma and Pa Gordy). Gwen and Anna were co-owners with Billy Davis (and later, perhaps also Harvey Fuqua) at Anna Records. When Anna Records dissolved in early 1961, Anna came into Motown, and was given stock. I assume that Robert and George probably got some stock as well. Gwen was now with Harvey in their own Tri-Phi/Harvey Records (Hardeye Production Corp.), starting in mid 1961. But they operated out of offices within The Motown Complex, and recorded in The Snakepit. In mid 1963, Gwen’s and Harvey’s operation was folded in with Motown, and they were given Motown Corp stock, accordingly.
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OK, breathing room. First regarding my age, both you and Missy Hyatt think that I am more ancient than I really am. But that’s alright. I am not offended and attribute such suppositions to my vast array of accumulated knowledge. Whether you are either offended or honored by being placed in the same sentence as Missy Hyatt is another story. Anyway, my 70th birthday bash will be held this Saturday.
Healthwise, 3 of my doctors conferenced three days ago and agreed that a special radiologist should get involved to determine whether an oncologist is necessary. I eagerly await said involvement before any excavations into me are attempted. As for you, I strongly suggest that nothing is inevitable and your continued good health should always be expected and cherished no matter what’s down the road for me.
Musically speaking, I knew you would be able to find distinguishing markings to separate the 2 “Jamie”s. If you can also discover distinguishing vocal clues, perhaps I will be able to learn which one is included in TCMS set. Length of recording won’t do it because such information is not listed for any song in this compilation. I never got into 8-tracks but was disappointed when cassette players began to disappear from late model automobiles. I had to burn a whole lotta CDs to transfer a whole lotta music. Someday I hope to master the art of MP3 usage. (I’ll have to speak to some young’on.) Finally, I am unable to answer your question about the “DR” markings, but I have a feeling that fellow Junkie Robb Klein might be in a position to provide useful information on that issue. Hopefully he will read this posting and respond.
Best wishes, good friend.
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Thanks for the referral, Abbott. And good luck with your health. We are almost exactly the same age. I just reached 70 a few weeks ago. As for the DR initials painted onto Motown records, I seem to remember that they were the initials of a Motown promotion man, who dealt with getting the records to DJs or distributors (I have forgotten which). I even knew both the first and last names, years ago. He had a similar role to Gil Bogos, who used a stamp: “gratefully, Gil Bogos”, instead of painting on his initials. I also knew, at one time (late ’60s and early ’70s) in which parts of the country they operated. But, sadly, I have not only lost short-term memory, but also, much to my chagrin, long-term memory, over the past 10 years.
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Hey Robb, good to see you’re checking out responses. Please check out my response (sent to Abbott) regarding the “DR” on Motown related labels! And happy belated birthday!
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After re-reading your earlier postings I do see that you said you were soon to be 70. My apologies, AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY! When you said you were a sophomore in ’60 I tried counting backwards by assuming you were 16 at that time and I guess I got it wrong. So if born in ’46 you were 14 when you were a sophomore! Anyway, again, happy birthday sir.
On to the music. I can explain to you how, and why, the “DR” got on SO many Motown (family) labels but first I have to take you back to the beginning. First of all “Motown” began as “Tamla”. Tamla was incorporated mid January ’59. The Motown label was incorporated two weeks later. Other labels would soon follow. The plan was (apparently) in the beginning, to make quality records that would catch the attention of the buying public of the time period. Then, after an initial local pressing to show the company/record had potential, LEASE that record to a larger label for a profit. BAD GIRL (Motown) was the first and was leased to Chess. Come To Me (Tamla) was second, leased to United Artists. Merry Go ‘Round (Tamla) was next, leased again to United Artists. After, with the money obtained from leasing, Gordy began to keep certain groups OUT of the leasing loop. The Satintones for instance, and of course, The Miracles. Beginning with the earliest days “Motown” had it’s own salesmen, at least at the “local or regional” level. They would deliver 45’s to the nearby regional record stores and retrieve unsold copies of other releases. This trend continued for several years. By early ’62 the Motown (family of) label(s) were doing quite well financially and Gordy came up with the idea of sending his artists out on tour. NOT independently but as a combined “caravan of stars” kind of set up. So a bus was purchased and that bus was sent out, accompanied by as many as 5 large cars, on tours. Originally sticking close to the “home” region the tours became quite popular. They expanded to include the east coast (New York City, etc) as eventually ventured as far south as mid-Alabama. It was during these tours that Gordys’ (and his accountant’s) other idea came into play. By ’62 they had several thousand records on hand that had been retrieved from record stores which had gone unsold. So they (Motown) sent these records out on tour with the Motortown Revue. At every show (sometimes 4 a day) they set up a table somewhere in the venue and gave away free records to the crowd. These records were “new” unsold stock. Sometimes a few months old, sometimes a year or more. The Motown employee assigned to distribute the records would mark each one, usually on the “A” side with the letters “DR” for “don’t refund/don’t return”. By being marked in such a way the recipient could not then take the record to the local record store for either a refund or exchange.
Giveaways of these records were profitable for Motown for two reasons. First, it helped spur interest in Motown artists and that would help sales. Secondly, and maybe the most profitable reason was that, these aged, unsold stock copies could now legitimately be claimed as promotional items by the company and be written off on their corporate taxes at full retail value. Sadly the “giveaways” ended when the tours ended. Which was once many “Motown” artists became so famous the tours were no longer necessary. A single TV appearance could sell many more records than the “tour” would ever generate. However, MANY of the rarest, hardest to find early releases are only around today because the unsold copies were given away free during the touring years. This is especially true of rarities by The Satintones.
It’s been my experiance that about 95% of these records will have “DR” written on the label in black marker. 3% will have “DR” in green marker and 2% will have it in red.
So “hooray” for “DR” on the label. If it wasn’t there that record likely wouldn”t exist today. Having been destroyed as an “unsold, useless” copy.
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Wow! After all these years, I finally find out what “DR” stood for. Somebody told me way back in the ’60s a person’s name, with those initials, who was supposed to be a Motown marketing agent. I guess that was just a false rumour. I have records with DR with black and green marker, but most of the greens were a kind of acrylic paint, painted onto the label.
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Hey Robb! Yes, I’ve noticed that “acrylic” look to both the green and red markings. My first guess at why would be that the green may be nail polish and the red nail polish or lipstick. But the black, to me at least, appears to be some form of early indelible marker.
And who knows, you may be right that it was a marketing exec that came up with the idea and in honor of him (or to hold him responsible if the idea failed) they used his initials. Maybe as an “authorization” marker. But the records HAD to be marked in some way to prevent returns to local record stores. It was a different time in those days. No electric cash registers and very few if any paper receipts unless they were hand written. Add to that fact that Gordy was himself a former record store owner, having been in business with Marv Johnson (yes THAT Marv Johnson!) in the early ’50’s with a store in Detroit called The Jazz Mart. So Gordy knew a large part of his business depended on keeping independent (few “chains” in those days) record store owners happy so they would carry his product. A product produced by a (still) small independent company.
“Motown” may not have been the first to use such markings but they are the first I know of. Another company that used a similar method during nearly the same time period was Philles records (Phil Spector & Lester Sills company). They however used a rubber stamp and the initals were “NR” (for Non Returnable) stamped on the labels in black ink. ABC’s subsidiery Dunhill also, in the mid to late ’60’s used a similar rubber stamp notation which consisted of a 5 pointed star done with gold ink. It may well have appeared on other ABC product but I’ve seen it primarily on Dunhill for artists such as the Grass Roots, P.F. Sloan and A few Mama’s & Papa’s releases.
The only person who I can say for certain didn’t put his initials on these records was David Ruffin!
All my best to you, and thanks for reading our posts! Bob Moga
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Hi Bob, Thanks for providing us with all this information. The so-called “fact” that Marv Johnson was Berry Gordy’s partner in The 3D Record Mart in the early mid ’50s was an urban legend. We had a long discussion about it on Soulful Detroit Forum, where several older Detroiters debunked that. Berry’s brother (George?) was his partner. Marv Johnson was only a teenager then and had no money. He merely worked in the shop after school and on Saturdays. But that is why he sang on one of Berry’s first productions for Robert West’s Kudo Records in 1958, and was in on the founding of Tamla Records.
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Hey, Robb. Again great to know you’re listening. The association I referenced about Marv Johnson came from some source material I have from the ’90’s and I don’t doubt your “source material (and discussions)” are more accurate. In any event Gordy DID know Johnson in ’53 and apparently thought enough of him to record him for the first official “Motown” release. That being “Come To Me” on Tamla 101. When I say “Motown release” I refer to the initially small but soon to grow “family” of labels later to be called “Motown”. In the beginning and through the years The Miracles (ESPECIALLY Smokey Robinson) where Gordy’s “prize” group. And although Tamla was incorporated first and Motown second, The Miracles “Bad Girl” was the first production effort to see vinyl with a “Motown/Tamla” label. But it was pressed in very limited quantity with the idea in mind of leasing it out to a “major” label. Tamla 101, the 2nd release, went through a slightly different process. “Come To Me” by Johnson went through at least 2 Detroit/regional pressings before being leased to United Artists. One pressing has the (then accurate) Gladstone address while another pressing lacks the address. My reference material as well as information I obtained from my conversations with other, more well versed at the time, Detroit record collectors/sellers was that to seal the deal with United Artists for release of Come To Me Gordy had to give up Marv Johnson releases on any Tamla/Motown related label. He (Gordy) could and should continue his writing, production and oversight functions but ALL releases for the next few years would be solely on United Artist. for this concession Gordy would be paid well for each writing/production effort. To further the career of Johnson as well as solidify his new record company venture Gordy agreed. He must have been pleased because he returned to United Artists to release Eddie Hollands first effort (Tamla 102) which saw VERY limited local (Detroit) pressings reach stores before it, too, was leased to United Artists. Hence Tamla 102 is FAR rarer than Tamla 101 (with either address).
I have, to my amazement, actually seen two examples of Tamla 102 with a MEDIUM GREEN colored label instead of the standard “dull/off colored yellow” that was customary for Tamla at the time. Do you have any insight on that label variation? Any info/input from the “junkie” family? I no longer have my green label copy. I sold it almost 25 years ago, in Detroit, for an exorbitant amount of money. All I have now the the “standard” yellow label copy.
Thanks again for reading and participating in my posts. All responses welcome!
Bob Moga
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I beg to differ, Robert, with your statement that The Miracles’ “Bad Girl” was the first Tamla/Motown release. Official records at Motown show that Motown TLX2207, and the G1/G2 release of the record on pink striped Motown, came out in September 1959. Chess records state that the Chess version was released on July 2, 1959. I would expect, then, that The Motown release was actually put out before the Chess pressing, by, perhaps one month, – which would put it near June, 1959, or so. I had the striped label design, which was used only after the move to 2648 Grand. The first Tamla release was Tamla 101 (Marv Johnson’s “Come to Me”), which came out in late January or the beginning of February, 1959. It had the same label design as RayBer 1001 (Wade Jones), both being pressed up while the Gordy’s were still operating out of 1719 Gladstone St., where The Ray-Ber Music Company operated. At its closest, “Bad Girl” on Motown was issued almost half a year later than the first 2 Tamla records.
I also disagree with your comment that Tamla was incorporated early. As far as I know, The Motown family of labels was first incorporated as Motown Record corporation after both Tamla and Motown Records were up and running, and Tamla was run quite a while as an entrepeneurship (either a partnership of Berry and Raynoma Gordy, or partnership of Berry, Raynoma and the other Gordy family members who had loaned him the $800 start-up money).
As to the green coloured label, I have experienced a few yellow to green faders from 1958-59 (not Tamla, but other Detroit labels).
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Thanks for your interest in our postings! I agree with roughly half of your comments. I agree that Motown G1/G2 (label designations for A and B sides) of SHOP AROUND were likely pressed in May or June of ’59. Thus NOT the 1st tune to be released on a “Motown” related label. HOWEVER, I DO believe it was the 2nd.
Records of the City of Detroit show Tamla records was officially incorporated on Jan 12, 1959. Those same records show that Motown Record Corporation was incorporated in April of 1960. The 1960 “Motown” incorporation folded in ALL the then existent labels in under the “Motown” name AND the Tamla/Motown banner. Which was used for releases outside of the U.S.
Which may be what has led me to state that “Bad Girl” was the 1st Motown release. It was, but it wasn’t, as you have made clear, the 1st release by what would soon become “Motown” was Tamla 101, Come To Me/Marv Johnson.
My reference as well as person to person interactive information is that Tamla 101 was released, IN DETROIT, in late Jan of ’59, shortly after the incorporation of the label (and thus the company). Tamla 102 was released late that year, AGAIN IN DETROIT, in either late Nov or in Dec of ’59. That puts the (May/June/July) MOTOWN striped pink labels of Bad Girl right in the middle of those two. I have an original Chess white label DJ copy of Bad Girl that has a date stamp of Aug. 17, 1959 on the label, which I gather is the date the radio station received it. My information and reference material relates that the record was “test” pressed in limited quantities (maybe 250/300 45’s). That same info says there were TWO pressings- TLX2207 and G1 (the flip is G2). As related to me, many of these “test” pressings were distributed “for sale” to less than a half dozen stores, ALL within the city limits of Detroit and ALL to shop “owners” to whom Gordy was acquainted with, again, with the sole intention “testing” it’s marketability with the public so Gordy could lease it out. My info is that he shopped it to both Cameo and Chess and went with Chess even though he had to promise Chess the sole rights to the groups next record.
As a short follow up, I have owned at least 6 copies of the record. I have NEVER seen a copy with TLX 2207 ON THE LABEL. (Have you?) I Have, however, seen about half of those copies with TLX 2207 etched in the dead wax. But the dead wax ALSO contained the G1 notation.
So after all this, can we agree to disagree, or can we compromise? I say Tamla was incorporated (as the first and ONLY, at the time, label) by Gordy in mid-January ’59. Tamla 101 SOON followed. By mid ’59 test presses of Motown G1 reached the public and the song was leased to Chess for LATE summer release. Tamla 102 was released in late Fall of ’59, making it the 3rd release under what would soon be incorporated as the “Tamla/Motown” banner.
As an aside note here, I would say that the 1st OFFICIAL release on the Motown label was Motown 1000, The Sationtones. Likely in early Sept ’60. Which would put it about 15 months AFTER the striped pink label pressings of Bad Girl by The Miracles.
Remember your sites motto— dissent is encouraged!
Best, Bob Moga
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I have to amend my earlier comment. I DID NOT MEAN TO STATE THAT MOTOWN G1 OR TLX 2207 WERE COPIES OF SHOP AROUND. I WAS REFERRING TO YOUR COMMENTS ON THE RELEASE OF “BAD GIRL”. MY MISTAKE AND I APOLOGIZE.
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Hi Bob,
I knew that Motown Record Corporation had been incorporated in 1960, I DIDN’T know that Tamla Records had been incorporated at any time.
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I had always heard that Tamla Records was NOT a corporation, but was a partnership between Berry and Raynoma Gordy, and it was not incorporated until 1960, as Motown Record Corporation. Naturally, Tamla Records had to get a license to operate as a business in The State of Michigan (which it did in January of 1959). I think THAT (rather than setting up a State Corporation) was what your contact was referring to. I would like to see some proof that Berry and Raynoma set up a corporation in 1959. That costs a LOT of money in lawyer fees, and State fees. Berry had to borrow $800 to start the company. I don’t believe that paltry sum would have been enough to pay for all the costs of incorporation, and pressing up Tamla 101, and pay for all the other costs of starting up that business. I never heard of a “Ma and Pa” local record label incorporating before having any sales success. I just can’t believe that Berry and Raynoma did that so early.
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Yes, I have seen Motown TLX-2207. I bought one during the 1960s. The first 3 copies of “Bad Girl” on Motown that I saw were that particular pressing. I didn’t see the G1/G2 catalogue numberless issue until the late 1980s. I sent a scan of mine to Stephane to upload on this website’s “Bad Girl” page. But he didn’t upload it, because he already had the G1/G2 pressing posted. He still has the scan. Perhaps now he’ll upload it. The only difference from the numberless, is that it has TLX-2207 sitting just above G1 or G2 (on both A and B sides). Of course, G1 and G2 were also etched onto the trail of ALL Motown “Bad Girl”issues (TLX – 2207 copies, or not). They were the record’s pressing code numbers. They correspond to the later ZTSC Columbia pressing codes, and Monarch’s LA pressing plant codes on Motown pressings, and RCA pressing plant codes, Etc.
I have to question your statement that Tamla 102 (Eddie Holland) was released in “late 1959”. I bought it only a few weeks after “Come To Me”. According to The Motown Singles CD set, there were several Tamla issues before even September 1959. I saw Eddie Holland’s “Merry-Go-Round” on Tamla long before I saw any striped Tamla. I bought several striped Tamlas, AFTER Tamla 102, all before “Bad Girl” was released. Here’s the list:
5501 Nick & Jaguars – “Ich-I-Bon”
54021/22 – Barrett Strong – “Let’s Rock”
54024 – Chico Leverett – “I’ll Never Love Again”
54024 – Swinging Tigers – “Snake Walk”
54025 – Ron & Bill – “It”
54026 – Satintones – “Motor City”
54027 – Barrett Strong – “Money”
There is no way that that early pressing of Tamla 102 was released in late 1959. It was out in February. 1959. And there were, at LEAST 6 or 7 striped Tamlas out in spring BEFORE “Bad Girl” was released on Motown. I was around and buying records in Chicago AND Detroit in 1959, and I know the timing of those things.
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I agree with most of your response except for a few areas. Although the discographies I own and have seen on search engines say Tamla 102 was released in Nov/Dec ’59 the info you supplied regarding the “lined” label releases during the middle of the year SEEM to dispute that. UNLESS of course 102 was with held until late in the year.
Regardless, what I’ve been trying to get across is that “Bad Girl” WAS the 1st to receive a Motown label. Which it got PRIOR to the songs release on Chess. And Chess didn’t press/release it until, at the earliest, late July to early August. Factor into that the lead time necessary to metal master the tape, ship it, then press it in any quantity then distribute it and you have to deduct up to 3 weeks from when it 1st “hit the airwaves” as a Chess release. Which would likely put it’s lease date to Chess as likely late July. Backtrack further and you, in my opinion, would have to deduce the test presses on the Motown label were in late June to early July. That would put it right in sync with many of the Tamla label releases you so correctly note in your last reply. Early summer of ’59.
And as far as Gordy borrowing the $800, maybe that was to cover the lawyer fees and incorporation costs in Jan of ’59.
$800 in 1959 was a HUGE amount of money. Probably $8,000 in today’s economy. Plus, what makes you think that Gordy was “broke” when he borrowed the money? He, after all, had revenue from placing the Miracles with AND co-writing their 2 END releases. Royalties or payments from Brunswick for his efforts on Jackie Wilson’s recent hits as well as payments for writing songs issued on other small local Detroit labels in the recent past.
I think if you use any search engine of your choice you will find that Tamla WAS incorporated in Jan ’59.
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Hello, Bob. Let’s wrap up 2 matters.
First the age discrepancy question: I made it up the educational ladder so rapidly because 1) I was a December baby and placed in kindergarten at the age of 4. With all those baby boomers waiting to fill the schools beyond capacity, it was desirable to move me in and along before the hordes arrived. I was always one of the younger students at each grade level.
2) Some educators committed the outrageous blunder of thinking I was intelligent, and following my completion of the 7th grade, I was moved directly into the 9th grade, resulting in my being a high school sophomore not at 14, but 13 years of age. I graduated high school at 16 and college at 20. What were the consequences of all this? A year and a half of extra eligibility to be sent to Vietnam. Thanks, Mom and those teachers.
Now for the DR confusion. When you asked me about it, I mistakenly thought you were seeking information that you didn’t know rather than asking me if I knew something you already knew. That’s why I involved Mr. Klein. Well, anyway, I’m happy we all learned something while exchanging data on this subject, and this brings me to my question: Do the little holes in some old 45s carry the same implications as the DR symbol?
Finally, some info you may or may not be aware of. We lost 2 more Motown legends within the last 4 weeks: Raynoma Liles Gordy on November 11th and producer Harry Balk, who brought Rare Earth to the company and who produced Marvin Gaye’s smash LP “What’s Going On” among other accomplishments, 3 days ago.
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Abbott! I totally understand about the schooling! I too was born “late” in the year. Nov of ’51 and started school at the age of 4. Although never double promoted as you, I graduated at the age of 17 and could NOT get a job as I was under age. To remedy that situation I had to use a fake birth certificate I manufactured using my then girlfriends birth certificate as a template. She was 7 months older than I and in Michigan, at the time, all birth certificates were pretty much standard ( at least in our county). So I made a copy of hers and a copy of mine, Taking the two copies I used a razor blade and cut out the areas of my certificate that referenced the date born and date signed and carefully placed that over her copy and made another copy (made on a “pay” copy machine at the local Post Office) and WHA-LA – new birth certificate! All my information but with her date of birth and date of Doctors signature. And I was off to a 40 hour a week job 3 days after graduation! And I believe I can understand some hardships you must have born by not only starting school at the age of 4 but then double promoted. My nephew (now 50) underwent a similar situation. He could read at the age of 3 and do 3rd grade math at the age of 4 so after 1st grade he was double promoted and has suffered emotional problems since he was 12. He is very smart but after the double promotion he was an outcast with the students he encountered. It must be tough to be 14 and try to fit in with 16 and 17 year olds who resent you. Not to mention the dating factor. How do you at 14 ask a 16/17 year old girl, A CLASSMATE, for a date? YIKES, that MUST be tough!
Now on to your question about the “little holes” in the “old” 45’s. The simplest and most straightforward answer is NO, they are not similar to the “DR” on Motown related labels. Or to the “NR” on Philles related labels.
Those “little holes” do not mean the record was given out or intended for use as a promotional item.
To explain them quickly but with some background lets go back to the ’50’s. There were a few major, some less than “major” labels. To get a song out in say ’51 to 56 it almost HAD to be leased to one of these two types of labels.
But with the breakout of R & B and rockabilly and rock & roll the number of small independent labels blossomed. ALL of them had ONE THING in common– they needed their product distributed as far and fast as possible.
MANY of the small labels had trouble with the honesty of the distributors they were forced to depend on and that’s, for the most part, how and why label variations came about for each pressing.
But beyond that, the distributors were responsible not just for the delivery of new releases but also for the retrieval of old releases. In the ’50’s and very early ’60’s these records were reported to their clients as destroyed for non sale.
But by ’63 or so the “sound” of rock’n’roll had reached the point that sooo many new listeners had missed out on the songs of just a few weeks or months ago that the distributors along with the record companies came up with a “solution”. That solution was, for want of a better term, the “record bin”. An area of every record store set up to sell “old” records. Those that had either left the charts or sometimes never charted. But that raised the question of how to differentiate these “wholesale” records from original stock.
Thus some unknown genius, somewhere, came up with the “drill hole” idea.
Simply put, the “drill hole” (often referred to in advertising as a “dh”- drill hole or “cut out” “co”) was born.
It’s simply a very economical way to denote a record that went unsold after it’s last pressing and was offered for sale at discounted price.
You simply put a 4 or 5 inch stack of records on a drill press, heat up a 6 inch drill bit and drill a hole through a portion of the records near the “center hole”
I recall when I was about 14 and living in a suburb of Detroit, riding my bicycle the 6 miles or so to a discount department store called ARLENS and using my allowance to buy 45’s from the stores’ “discount table”. Ten feet wide and 30 feet long it held thousands of 45 rpm “jewels”. ALL at 29 cents each/four for $1. Once a month they would have a 5 for a dollar sale. All were brand new and ALL had that distinctive “drill hole”. Didn’t matter to me. And NOTHING ever left the “discount table’. It stayed there until it was sold! Only “rule” about the discount table was that there was NEVER any song that was still on the local radio “chart”. Once it left the local charts in 2 to 3 weeks it would show up on “the table”. So you could get a 3 week old former #1 or a 3 yr old “dud” for the same price, plus everything in between. Obscure groups, local groups, etc. ALL MINT UNPLAYED. You just had to put up with that pesky drill hole. Which to me, at the time, was NO PROBLEM AT ALL!
My experience is that 45’s prior to ’64 do not have the “drill hole” but it becomes more and more common beginning in about ’65.
Any input from the “junkie” family?
My best to you and yours Abbott. Bob Moga
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Thank you, once again, for clearing up another of the mysteries of my upper teenage years. Did the stores in your area have the one dollar mystery box, where you a person purchased 10 45s and saw only the first record? The other nine were unknown and unseen until you arrived home, broke the seal, and finally got to view what your $1 had contributed to your record collection. Of course the contents of the box was nonrefundable and each record had the drill hole. That was the only way a record by Dick Dees, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tick could get past my front door.
Regarding age discrepancies, dating wasn’t that much of a problem because I was tall. But I tended to date younger girls and still do. GF is 50. My biggest impediment was getting on the school basketball team. Spent most of my carrer running the time clock and scoreboard.
Best wishes, Bob.
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Corrections: Dave Dee and Tich.
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Now that you bring it up I DO remember those, what you refer to as “mystery box” items! Forgot about those! Some of them, as I recall, had the outermost song visible on each side. As Robb mentions. Where I shopped these boxes didn’t appear often and I can recall buying a few on occasion but as I recall now I was not enthused by the “mystery records within and opted for the sales of the singles instead.
Sounds like Robb had the best of it with multiple tables at descending prices!
In any event I think Robb has confirmed by response to you about the “drill holes” in the 45’s. Beginning in the mid ’60’s. As an alternative to drill bits some distributors used a heated (really hot) solid metal “plunger” type bit to melt thru the “wax” to make the hole. Both methods often left a melted residue on either side of the label but buyers (like me) often just scraped it off with a fingernail. Some “drill holes” are larger than others depending on the distributors method and the size of the heated “rod” or “drill”.
I remember the group you allude to- Dave,Dee, etc,etc. English group from about ’65 – ’67. I like a couple of their songs. Always on Fontana label.
From that info I gather you may also be an ecclectic (again-miss spelled) collector! THANK YOU! There’s someone else out there! I cut my teeth on Detroit Garage. Seger (EARLY SEGER). Rationals. Unrelated Segments. Camel Drivers. Scot Richard Case (SRC), and MANY MORE.
Then I discovered the groups OUTSIDE my area! Mouse & The Traps, Swamp Rats, and SOOOO many more!
Say, do you recall a NYC group called The Rare Breed that recorded for the Attack record label in the mid to late 60’s (66-67)? They had two releases on the label I know of. The 1st, which I’ve owned was “Beg, Borrow And Steal” and the 2nd was, I believe, titled “My Little Red Boat”.
My interest in the group is because their version of “Beg, Borrow and Steal” (which I LOVE) is IDENTICAL to the ’67 nationally released version on Cameo BUT CREDITED TO THE OHIO EXPRESS!
The 2nd song, which I believe was titled “My Little Red Boat” (released on NYC based Attack records) was re-titled as “Come On Down To My Boat” and released circa ’68 by Every Mothers Son. Same song, different title.and different group.
I like this group and wonder if you have any information on them.
Best, Bob Moga
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I, too, with my late birthday, and all the Baby Boomers, started school early. I “skipped over” Kindergarten, and started 1st Grade at 5. In Winnipeg, AND in Chicago, we had Woolworths with their 10¢ 45 sales and 3 for $1 LP sales. We also had record shops with 10, 5, 4, 3 and 2 for a Dollar bins, as well as mystery packs, in which you could only see the 2 outside records. And, yes, the cutouts with the holes only started around 1965. The longer the records sat without being bought, they would continue moving down in cost, bin by bin. In addition, I searched through thrift stores, furniture stores, and junk stores, and yard sales, to amass a large collection at low cost. After reaching driving age, I started driving from Chicago to Detroit, one Saturday per month, to look for records (1963-1969).
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Hello
I have an audiodisc acetate of shop around which is the miracles single version. It has the name sammy jay on it. Any ideas about this. I am not a Motown expert !
Thanks
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I seem to remember a Sammy Jay as a DJ. But, I’m not sure if he was headquartered in Detroit or Chicago. Maybe that acetate was made for him as a Detroit DJ? Or maybe even if he was located in Chicago, because Smokey used to drive his car to Chicago to deliver Miracles records to DJs and record shops before Motown had good distribution. He did that during the early portion of “Shop Around” ‘s run.
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Thanks so much. Sounds very plausible!
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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Which 45 version is the acetate? – The local, Detroit version with the twangy guitar solo in the break, or the national hit version?
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Thanks for all the info here. It is the national hit version.
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Did Tamla recording think it was so b ad that recording the year, as London did,wasnt necessary? Thats horrible, even if the song was bad , to them. Even Satan has his history recorded.
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