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VIP 25028 (A), November 1965
b/w All For Someone
(Written by Robert Dobyne, Charles Jones and Robert Staunton)
The start of Say You, the first single released by the Monitors (formerly Majestics) under their new name, is a blast of fresh air whenever you hear it – but here on Motown Junkies, coming as it does on the heels of a somewhat underwhelming October 1965, it’s as invigorating as a new beginning can be. From November until the spring of ’66, barring the occasional outlying hiccup, Motown’s run of A-sides (perhaps the best sequence in the label’s history) are truly deserving of the Golden Age tag. And this is the first of them.
This is always faster and harder and more dynamic in my head than it is on the actual record, which turns out to be a slinky, chugging soul piece; the blazing horn-powered intro gives it the initial push, and then the song just cruises up the hill. If it’s slightly thinner and less ballsy than I’d remembered, it’s also prettier, the sort of thing that would have absolutely lit up Philadelphia ten years down the line. The Monitors had arrived, and with them came the Motown sound for the second half of the Sixties; the sound of young America, but unmistakeably growing up.
I love the Monitors. Although we’ve already met their previous incarnation, the Majestics, here on Motown Junkies – they’d had an unreleased single just over a year previously, the frustratingly close-to-great but also honkingly-flawed Hello Love, this feels like their real introduction to the Motown story. Lead singer and driving force Richard Street, one of the great, underrated Motown voices, has sadly passed away since we last wrote about him and his quietly excellent group, but thankfully the Monitors were well-served with a superb Ace/Kent CD compilation before his passing, giving modern listeners the chance to reappreciate an unfairly overlooked body of work. The title given to the compilation? Say You.
It was a title well chosen; as mission statements go, Say You is a declaration of intent. Perhaps for the first time, a Motown act stakes a claim in the exact musical territory already mined by another Motown artist, in this case the Four Tops and their magnificent vocal partnership with the female Andantes. It’s no surprise to read in the liner notes to The Complete Motown Singles: Volume 5 that the song was originally recorded with the Tops in mind, the Spinners and Temptations both having a crack at it before the exasperated producers asked Richard Street and the Majestics/Monitors were asked – as a matter of convenience rather than artistic nous – to lay down a demo vocal, which ended with them being asked to do a proper full recording. But this isn’t “Four Tops lite” as might be feared; Richard’s (beautiful0 voice is nothing like that of Levi Stubbs, but otherwise this is the sound of the Tops/Andantes concept being dialled up to 11, producers Staunton and Walker (only one of whom cops a writing credit here, surprisingly, along with the enigmatic sometime Motown singer-songwriter Robert Dobyne) stretching the idea almost to breaking point. A Tops version might have laboured that point; the Monitors’ take is surprisingly fresh and punchy.
But it works, and it works really well, all based around a crazy off-beat hook, a soaring operatic football chant of a chorus – Say YOU-U! belted out at the top of everyone’s range and voice – contrasted with Richard’s ruminative, pleading verses, like an alternate-universe Marvin Gaye with the diction of Smokey Robinson, the phrasing of Eddie Kendricks. He rambles through his thoughts, sometimes addressing them second-person directly to the woman (the “you” of the title), other times sounding like he’s talking to himself, trying these thoughts out loud to see what he really thinks. It’s striking, and it’s almost impossible not to like.
Usually, I’d be finding fault with the song for its lack of direction, but I think the confusion in Say You is in its way quite magnificent, that enormous chorus-hook crashing back in whenever Richard runs out of things to say and needs to underline his point, then shrinking away again to put him back in the centre-stage spotlight. It really works, and what’s more, it works in a way that we’ve not really heard before.
It’s full of little moments, touches that raise smiles – drum fills, string stings, spit and polish to something approaching a Philly sheen rather than the blood and sweat and fire of the Funk Brothers which have underpinned even the most serenely lovely Motown tracks to date. It’s hard to put a finger on it, but in essence, it sounds modern; really, only the style of the backing vocals gives it away as a mid- rather than late-Sixties Motown piece. And Richard Street sounds like he was born to do this – the Temptations had no need for a fourth great lead singer just yet, but their not bringing one-time Distants bandmate Street across when the group came together with the Primes in 1961 looks an increasingly strange decision the more you listen to this.
The song can’t really keep it up – it’s still 1965, and nobody involved with this has ever heard a smooth soul record circa 1971, and so we end up getting scruffier and looser as we go on, that four-storey hook becoming more and more insistent as the writers (like the narrator) keep reaching for it to bolster the song in its less certain moments. Luckily, it’s a strong enough melody to carry the song, which in turn ends up sturdy enough to shoulder the weight of its own defining moment – a great Motown earworm, a snatch of tune which you’ll come away whistling at the expense of the verse stretches.
It’s also strong enough to shrug off the inevitable comparison to the Four Tops, the Monitors somehow managing to sound like they’re doing what the Tops are doing without really actually sounding much like the Tops themselves. What they do sound like is yet another great act to roll off the Motown production line; unlike so many of the one-and-done wannabes, the wrecks of whose Motown careers litter the catalogue of the underfunded fifth-string VIP Records label, these guys are absolutely keepers.
MOTOWN JUNKIES VERDICT
(I’ve had MY say, now it’s your turn. Agree? Disagree? Leave a comment, or click the thumbs at the bottom there. Dissent is encouraged!)
You’re reading Motown Junkies, an attempt to review every Motown A- and B-side ever released. Click on the “previous” and “next” buttons below to go back and forth through the catalogue, or visit the Master Index for a full list of reviews so far.
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The Monitors “All For Someone” |
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i’m not overly familiar with the monitors, but this nice track seems as if it is from philly. it has a nice smooth sound. thanks for digging up a forgotten track (for me) and giving it a nice review, nixon!
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You’re very welcome!
The Monitors are great. They always struck me as a kind of compromise candidate for people who can’t decide whether they like the Four Tops or Temptations best, as they’re a kind of what I imagine a mix of the two would sound like; this one I suppose epitomises that, a once and future Temptation singing over a Four Tops backing track!
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I was not familiar with this song until now. IMO this has the Spinners written all over it! A perfect vehicle for Bobby Smith’s voice. The Monitors, however, do a superb job and deserve the “8” given by the Administration!
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The Spinners did indeed cut a version according to the liner notes, but apparently their vocals didn’t impress producers Staunton and Walker, and were wiped off by subsequent overdubs by other groups.
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There’s a reason why The Spinners and Monitors had a similar sound: They were both produced almost exclusively by Harvey Fuqua and Johnny Bristol.
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You’ve got it wrong! It wasn’t the other ex-Distants not asking Richard Street to come with them to Motown. He had been with them when Berry Gordy saw them performing, and told them to come see him when their contract with Johnnie Mae Matthews would end. He certainly wanted their lead singer. It was Street who declined to come with them to Motown. Supposedly he was busy with “Girls”(women), and considering going solo. Having retained the rights to The Distants’ name, not long after, he gathered together some new recruits, and formed a new Distants group, and signed with ex-Motowner, Don Davis for Davis’ and Hazel and Robert Coleman’s second label, Thelma Records. The latter were Berry Gordy’s first wife’s (Thelma’s) parents. Gordy ended up buying Thelma out in late 1965, after having lured Richard Street, his Distants, amalgamated with Johnny Mitchell’s Majestics. and producer Norman Whitfield from them in 1964.
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Thanks Robb. I knew everything from the original Distants split onwards (I think this was all covered in the first Majestics review), but as for the split itself, I’ve never read an account that makes complete sense. What’s your source for the “busy with girls/hoping to go solo” stuff? Otis Williams’ account really glosses over this bit of the story.
Much of this history would be retrospectively coloured by the fact that whether he jumped or was pushed, Richard certainly missed out on a big opportunity by not being in the Elgins/Temptations when they finally signed to Motown – but from what I’ve read before, I thought the Distants had fallen apart before the proposed merger with the surviving Primes. (In fact, some accounts make the merger the cause of the split – not everyone in the two groups got on with each other – while others make the split the cause of the merger – Kell Osborne leaving the Primes because he thought they were going nowhere, Richard and James Crawford leaving the Distants for whatever reason, and the two groups not having enough bodies to physically continue without joining forces.)
Whatever happened to Kell Osborne and James Crawford, the other might-have-beens from the last phase of the early pre-Tempts story?
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The Distants were asked by Gordy to come and see him when their contract with J M Matthews would end, fairly early in their period with Matthews’ Northern Records, while they were enjoying a minor local hit with “Come On”. They later had another release titled “All Right”, before leaving Northern. The Distants broke up because Otis Williams and Street disagreed on some issues on ways the group should go. So Street left to consider a new path, and Crawford left. So, the remaining Distants needed more members. So, they joined with the two remaining Primes, after Osborne left (moving slowly west, until ending up in Los Angeles). I think Crawford joined another minor Detroit group or two, and then got a “day job”. I seem to remember that he was in The Magnetics on All Rite Records, and another local Detroit group on a small label. Osborne ended up living in South Central in L.A., and had solo releases on a lot of label’s, including Leon Rene’s Class Records, Revis, Highland and many more L.A. labels. He had several local hits, and was popular on the club scene down there.
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“Say You” is an example of a Motown “house song”. A backing track with many artists taking a shot a the vocal. The Temps version, from the 1966 “Gettin’ Ready album, with David Ruffin on lead joined by Melvin Franklin on the bridge was never released as a single. The Temps version is not only a better record but provides a straight forward comparison between Ruffin and Street as singers.
Ruffin’s delivery is a revelation. He is energetic, soulful and shows off his range. Street, a wonderful singer, takes a more subdued approach also doesn’t have the Temps to back him up. The Temps “Say You” has been included every Temptations compilation I have put together since the 70’s. If you played this record on Detroit radio today a lot people would sing along. This record a good example of the interesting album cuts from Motown Records.
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I’d have to disagree with your statement that the Temps’ version is the better. Personally, I find the Temps’ version kind of clunky in places, and Melvin Franklin’s solo on the bridge just seems out of place. In short, it sounds like a demo. (If that’s what their demos sounded like, though, it’s no wonder the released versions sound amazing. But I digress.) The Monitors’ version, on the other hand, has that extra polish that I suppose I’ve been spoiled by. The Temps still do an excellent job.
Furthermore, I would say that in many Monitors (and, later, Temptations) records, Richard Street has shown himself more than capable being energetic, and subdued and soulful aren’t always antonyms.
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Yup, I agree with pretty much everything MotownFan1962 said there. I like the Temps’ version, but personally I think the Monitors do the song much more justice. And while David gives a typically excellent lead, I “feel” Richard more than I do David.
The Temptations’ version sounds like a demo because it effectively is a demo, in every practical sense, albeit a vocal demo sung over a finished band track; it wasn’t shopped around as a “house song” as Charles put it, a Jobete copyright being hawked out to every Tom, Dick & Harry on the label to score more royalties (not just on albums but even on 45 – we’ll see plenty of examples of this in the years to come), but rather because – having recorded a band track for the Four Tops but then found them unavailable or unwilling – Staunton and Walker weren’t entirely sure what to do with it, going through several iterations before settling on the Monitors.
The Spinners’ version, along with the stereo version of the Temps’ effort, were unceremoniously wiped to make room for the Monitors, and there’s no evidence the Temptations cut was ever planned to be used for anything at all until it was turned up when Motown were searching for material to bulk out the Gettin’ Ready album a year later.
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I was familiar with the Tempts version long before I heard the Monitors version so I know that I am biased…but David blows this song out of the water. It is true that the main reason the Tempts version is so much better than the Monitors (to me) is because of David’s flawless range! And I always have to go with my boys harmonies. I happen to think there is nothing clunky about Melvin’s part because it so pays tribute to do wop groups. I am in the camp that feels that The Temptations version is superior and that would mean if the Monitor’s version gets an 8, I think the Tempts deserve a 9.
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Still, you have to admit, something must be said when the Andantes come together with male groups (or mostly male groups) like this one. I feel the harmonies on The Monitors’ version are richer and, as I’ve said before, more polished. The Tempts always do good on harmonies, but the Monitors and the Andantes just sound…prettier. And pretty (to me, at least) works better with this song than energetic and showing off your range (though I feel Mr. Street’s vocal has a lot of energy, but it’s in the right places).
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I agree. I knew the Tempts version decades before I heard the Monitors sing it. Richard does it justice but it feels like his is the demo version. Baltimore radio used to play it in ’66 as a departure from playing the currently released Temptations hit.
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So, was The Spinners’ version then lost to posterity? I never saw it in any form in The Motown Vaults. I would really have loved to hear it. I love The Spinners and The Monitors, to death!
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Apparently, yes – unless someone unearths a long lost tape a la I Can’t Dance To That Music You’re Playing, the unwanted Spinners vocal was simply wiped. 😦
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I agree that The Monitors’ version is the better of the two. It is one of my all-time favourite songs. The melody is nicer, and the harmonies a bit sweeter, and the instrumental is sharper and clearer. It was given the “A -side hit treatment” as far as backing tracks. I would have loved to hear The Spinners’ version.
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Hi Gang,
Wow, this is a good record! Very nicely made. I think that if I heard this without knowing who it was & that it was a Motown record, I might have thought it was “someone trying to sound like a Motown artist”. That is not a criticism at all — just an observation.
Temptations version is nice but I prefer the Monitors. I could totally picture the Spinners doing this one.
Interesting little tidbit — Country/pop crooner Ronnie Dove had a hit in 1964 with a totally different song called “Say You”. In the 70s Mr. Dove made a couple of records for one of Motown’s country labels. He is from Northern Virginia where I grew up so I had to put in a word for one of the boys from my hood! LOL!
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Double checked on Ronnie Dove & yes he recorded several singles on the MC, Melodyland & Hitsville labels in the mid-70s. Robb Klein, my friend, do you know much about these labels? Not losing sleep over them, just curious Thanks!
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Hi Landini! If you use the “Labels” menu at the top of the page, you’ll see there’s a holding page already set up for Melodyland/Hitsville with some label outline info.
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Thanks! And by the way, just got a good report from the doc today re. cancer. Still in remission. Great Christmas gift! Nix, I sent you an e-mail about it from GEORGE.
Merry Christmas to my Motown friends!
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That’s great news, Landini! So glad to hear that! Have a happy New Year, too!
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What wonderful news. Have a fabulous Christmas and even better new year!
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I know absolutely NOTHING about any of those labels, despite the fact that I was working for Motown during the Hitsville and Melodyland label runs. I have never even heard of MC Records. I am NOT an expert on Motown Record Corporation, or even Motown or Tamla Records. I know almost nothing about ANY music produced after 1971, and not all that much about music produced after 1967. To be honest, I don’t know all that much even about Mel-o-dy records, other than their first 5 releases, as I wasn’t interested in Pop or C&W music.
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I believe that melodyland had to change their name to mc because the melodyland name was already being used by a Christian ministry group. I do wish all the to you friend Robb. !
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Meant to say all the best to you !
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That’s not quite right. Melodyland changed its name to Hitsville. The MC label originated through Motown’s association with Mike Curb (though some people prefer to think it stands for Motown Country!)
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Correct. However, since MC hardly troubles the singles side of Motown’s discography, like other labels such as Ecology, Black Forum or Gaiee, it doesn’t get a page of its own here.
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yeah–what Charles said!
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Wow! Thanks for introducing me to this song! I like it so much that I bought it on itunes. Some friends gave me an itunes giftcard which i used well! Hope all are having good holidays!
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You’re welcome, and well chosen!
Merry Christmas to all readers of Motown Junkies – here’s to a happy 2014 (hopefully with more reviews than I managed this year! )
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An eight, sounds about right. I for one am a fan of Stauton and Walkers work or in this case Stauton and again they delivered the goods. I was always a fan of Davids reading. Though over the years, I ‘ve listened to it on equipment that ranged from very basic to moderately advanced. The Tempts version always sounded murky to me. This is a mix for a single that was meant to be a hit. Unfortunately it wasn’t. Perhaps, wrong time, wrong place. Mr. Street was very undervalued as a singer.
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Wonderful record that stands the test of time admirably. I must admit to being a bit of a fan of Robert Staunton’s (whoever he was/is) Motown work although there’s not that much of it. I was searching for a single word to sum up this record, and then I remembered that early demos had the group name as the Majestics and that majestic fits this lovely records description to a tee. 9/10 in my opinion.
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“Another debut, and a smashing redesigned label for V.I.P. The Monitors have a male lead singer, and what sounds like a mixed backing group, and has overtones of The Tops and The Temptations. Works along at a medium paced to a rather grand finale. 4/5
“Flip is a Miracles type number, which I’m sad to say lacks that soulful magic that Smokey could have given it, and the melody though simple requires much skill to carry, and just occasionally the lead seems to be getting a little out of his depth. Could grow though. 3/5”
[Dave Godin, Hitsville USA 12, 1966]
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Here’s the problem as I see it:
The Temptations have a much LARGER FAN BASE, and some fans (I said some , not all) look at all music through their ”Temptations blinders”. According to THEM, Any time The Temptations record a song, it (to THEM) is automatically BETTER that ALL OTHER VERSIONS of that song, no matter what. EXAMPLES: The Temptations’ version of The Spinners’ “Truly Yours” is better than The Spinners’. The Temptations’ version of The Miracles’ “Happy Landing” is better that the Miracles’ . The Temptations’ version of The Monitors, “Say You” is BETTER, than The Monitors. THE TEMPTATIONS’ VERSION OF ANYBODY’S SONG IS AUTOMATICALLY BETTER than the originals, because THEY’RE THE MIGHTY TEMPTATIONS !!!
But that’s not always true.
Motown Records , in the 1960’s , had the HIGHEST HITS-TO-RELEASES RATIO in the entire industry. Why? their Quality Control Dept. (which Richard Street was a member of) listened to Hundreds of potential releases…by numerous artists. At these meetings , staff members, and outsiders, may listen to the exact same song by six or seven different artists…to make sure that the BEST version, by the BEST artist for that song, was the one that hit the streets….and the record stores. And they were almost ALWAYS CORRECT. The Temptations’ version of ‘WAR” was NOT chosen for single release. EDWIN STARR’S version was.
It SOARED all the way to # 1 !!!
Now. If The Temptations’ versions of “SAY YOU” and “TRULY YOURS” were better than the versions by the Monitors and The Spinners, than THEIR versions of those songs would’ve gotten the OK for single release. But they weren’t. The Monitors’ and Spinners” versions were. The rest is HISTORY.
Now , I know that this comment is bound to make some people angry, but I don’t mean to. But Berry Gordy has said many times: “Competition breeds Champions”.
And THAT’S why Motown had so many hits !!!
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My immediate thought is that in the case of Say You, and Truly Yours , the lead singers Bobby Smith and Richard Street were literally singing for their supper. The opportunity for them to record a-list songs that would come up for single release did not come that often, and in both cases, both singers made the most of the opportunity. On the other hand, the Tempting Temptations were always presented with the best material and therefore in both of these cases delivered a solid effort. I don’t know that in both cases it was the best of what they were capable of.
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Ha! Topkat. There is nothing you said that should make anyone angry. You simply stated your opinion. I actually underdstand the concept of fans of all kinds having “blinders” on when it comes to other versions of their favorite songs performed by others. In terms of Say You and Truly Yours, I think that the Tempts version of Say You is drastically superior over the Monitors, but I think the Spinners version of Truly Yours crushes the Tempts versions. It’s all personal taste. Whether Edwin Starr’s War made it to the number one spot on the national charts or not. I still prefer the Tempts version for a very clear reason—Paul’s verses struck me as a very sad reflection of war, while Dennis sung his version with great power and anger. I thought the Tempts version was made all the more powerful (for me) with Paul’s verses bookending Dennis’ verses. …and I thought it was common knowledge that Edwin’s version wasn’t necessarily considered better than the Tempts…Barry Gordy simply didn’t want his Copacabana Temptations to release such a political song at the time, so Whitfield recorded the tune on Starr. Its funny that the best example of someone doing a superior job of the handling of a Motown song, besting The Temptations, The Supremes and The Miracles, was the Jackson 5’s version of Who’s Loving You. I seems that most Motown artists would acknowledge that.
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